Wedge Exit?

[Scott G]

Despite having made a lot of progress with my skiing over the past few years, I feel that I?m still having a few fundamental problems with my turn that I?m struggling to correct. Stumbling upon this group has been very helpful, and the books and videos have been great resource. I really like the simplicity of the concepts, and think that there might be valuable information for me here, and some people who can help.

The problem manifests itself in the transition phase. Much to my disappointment, it seems that many of the action photos that have been taken of my skiing have been taken at just the right moment to capture a definite A-frame that occurs near the bottom of the turn. I wouldn?t describe it as a ?wedge entry?, since I don?t feel that I?m stepping onto the uphill ski. It?s more like a ?wedge exit?, where, in order to get just that last bit of additional speed control, I push out the heel of the outside ski near the bottom of the turn just before releasing the edge.

Recently, I have graduated to video, (albeit amateur video), and it shows the same, not so much on easier groomers, but definitely more so in bumps, steeps, and choppy terrain. It?s a completely defensive move that interrupts the flow of my skiing, and though I can actually feel myself doing it, I haven?t figured out the right cue that to help stop myself from doing it, or at least replace it with something else.

For those who are interested, I have posted the damning video and photo evidence at http://www.putfile.com/scottgu.

Apologies for the questionable quality of the videos. Hope it's viewable enough to be useful. My friends and I are still figuring out how to best use my little digital camera (Canon PowerShot A510) to get useful video for analysis, and learning from our mistakes as we go along. (Also my first time using Putfile. Hope I got that right, too.)

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions ?

- Scott

[jbotti]

Scott, I can't make the video work, you may want to check if you've set it up right.
If you look down and see a partial wedge at the end of a turn it is because you have already moved to the big toe edge of the new stance leg (for the upcoming turn) before you have released from the big toe edge of the old stance leg (which is now the downhill ski). It may appear that this is the end of your turn, but it is happening as you prepare for the next turn, and it is happening because you want the security of the big toe edge early for the next turn. It is a wedge entry.

What you want to create in your skiing is a moment of bowleggedness, where you are simultaneously on both little toe edges for a moment in the transition between turns. Being able to balance on each ski individually is essential.

Harald's wedge blocker drill on the PMTS site under "Online lesson" is a first step. You can also ride the LTE in traverses between turns and initiate the new turn while you maintain your balance on the LTE of the of the old free foot. Tipping the LTE of the other foot (the old stance foot) will initiate the new turn. Flexing (bending your knees) as you approach the transition will assist you in practicing this.

[Max_501]

Try this link, the video works fine for me:

http://www.putfile.com/scottgu

[Max_501]

Nice rhythm in the bumps.

I'm not sure whats causing the slight wedge you describe as its hard to isolate that area in the videos. But here's some stuff that I did see.

1) When transitioning agressively flex the downhill leg to release the turn. There should be no up movement.

2) Start the new turn from the downhill foot by agressively tilting to the little toe edge (you can try to pry the big toe off of the snow if that image works better for you). You want to tip and keep on tipping. Downhill foot starts the movement and then the body follows. As previously mentioned there will be a brief moment where this is an () shape to your legs.

3) When carving continue to use your pole plants and make sure you keep the strong inside arm. Add more counter balance.

4) Let the skis do the turning. It looks like you might be pushing the downhill ski around a bit (some steering maybe? I'm not sure, hard to see what's going on).

[violao]

Apologies for the questionable quality of the videos...

Try to set at least 24 fps (frames per second) if possible. If not abandon the idea of using digital camera for filming and use camcorder.

[jbotti]

Forgetting about the wedge entry, the most glaring issue in your skiing is that is essentailly skid based technique. I didn't look at all of it, but what you were doing in the Morning Groomer was enough.

Working on carving the whole trun and not skidding anywhere in the turn seems like the right next step. I would do it on easy blue terrain. Work on using completed carved arcs as a means to manage your speed.

I don't think I am a good enough teacher (I'm not really one at all) to design the right first steps to improve your technique. In reality your whole approach has to change (and that's not to say that you don't have an ability to manage terrain and make quick turns). With your skid based approach you really have no ability to carve, to resist the g force of the turn to create higher edge angles and to use this force to snap you into the next turn.

There is little or no flexing as you enter turn transition. There is no patience to allow the skis to engage and carve.

I'm know Harald, Jay and Joseph can help you more than this. It appears you are in the Denver area. I reccomend gettting yourself to a camp. I don't think this is a one drill fix. JB.

[Max_501]

Forgetting about the wedge entry, the most glaring issue in your skiing is that is essentailly skid based technique. I didn't look at all of it, but what you were doing in the Morning Groomer was enough.

He's got some carving video posted. Did you look at that? Not all turns need to be a hard edged carve.

[jbotti]

Another point, Your weight on almost all turn rides to the inside, which assists you in creating the skid. Essentailly there is no counterbalancing going on. When you get your weight over the new stance leg, you drastically increase your edge angles. Leaning into the turns drastically decreases your edge angles and in some way nessitates the use of the skid for speed management.

Harald's section on carving in Book II and the carving section on the video will help. Also pay special attention the the sections on upper and lower body coordination. Dynamic counter and counter balancing is virtually absent from your skiing. You won't carve the high C until this is in place.

I hope you were prepared to be barraged. I salute the guts to do it. JB.

[jbotti]

Max, the carving video is somewhat better, but his weight is still totally inside the turn. He has no ability to get early engagement and to carve the upper portion of the turn.

I actually think the skiing on the morning groomer is more telling. It's reasonably gentle terrain and there is no reason to skid.

[Max_501]

jotti and I are seeing 2 different things in the Morning Groomer run. I see a turn with soft edges with a push off the downhill foot towards the end of the turn.

I also see counter balance although not as much as there could be.

Leaning towards the inside of the turn increases edging...the problem is that without counter balance the forces are not directed down at the engaged edge but rather towards the middle or ouside of the ski which makes it more difficult to hold an edge on firm snow and ice.

[jbotti]

Max I beg to humbly disagree. Leaning into the turn in no way ever increases edge angles. You can try it standing on the side of a hill. With both edges engaged counter balance over the outside edge and watch what happens to the edge angles (the angle increases). For contrast get your weight inside the skis and watch the edge angles (the angle lessens).

Use the pasue button on the morning groomer run and look at where his body is when he sets his edges. It's totally inside his skis. His frame forms a straight line up holding the edge angle of his skis all the way to his head. This is the absence of counter balance. It most noticeable in the start of the left trun that occurs closest to the camera (half way through the video). Use the pause, you can't miss it. JB.

[Max_501]

Max I beg to humbly disagree. Leaning into the turn in no way ever increases edge angles.

Try this, stand with almost flat edges on a very slight incline (skis pointed across the hill). Now lay down so that your skis are downhill and your upper body is uphill with your skis pointed across the hill. So, did you increase or decrease the angle of your skis? At this point my skis are edged about 90 degress.

[jbotti]

Try skiing that way. Edge angles are in relation to their ability to bite into the snow and you have to be able to maintain your balance. Any edge must be able to support and balance the skier above it. What good are edges that appear to have increased angulation if they do not increase edging ability or if they drop your body to the snow.

My example is a real skiing example and the position I am talking about does increase your edge angle into the snow.

If you were right every word cup racer would lean into every turn for the "increased edge angle".

But let's see what Harald, Jay or Joseph have to say.

Regardless, I am clear that this is not the way to ski. Again it is essentially impossible to carve the upper portion of the turn when there is no counter balance. And this is pretty clear in Book II and on the video.

We can wait for the true experts. JB.

[Max_501]

jbotti, I already addressed counter balance and the need for it. I'm just pointing out that leaning into the hill will increase edge angles, there is no doubt about that. Note that I never said it increases edge bite and in fact was careful to point out that it does not increase edge bite in my previous post.

I see skiers on a daily basis that use inclination with little to no counter balance. It works as long as the snow is supportive. I'm not saying that its something we do in PMTS, but the fact remains that leaning into the hill increases edge angles which on supportive snow will let you carve a turn with no skidding.

Now, there is a time when you don't want to lean into the hill. Thats at the transition. If you lean into the hill when you are supposed to be coming across your skis (down the hill) you are doomed, especially on the steeps. I see people do this move all the time because they have a fear of falling down the hill, unfortunately leaning into the hill at that point actually helps you fall.

[jbotti]

Max, I will only say that in all the hill time that I have spent with Harald and Diana I have never once heard them tell me to lean into a turn. In fact they say Never lean into a turn. I don't think you will see it in Harald's or Diana's skiing.

My edge angle exmple doesn't lie. Try it. Leaning decreases edge angle.