Carv Device

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Carv Device

Postby skijim13 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:20 am

Has anyone tried the new device that you attach to you boots that gives feedback on your smartphone about your edge angles. Keeps coming up on many ski sites. I know nothing will replace real coaching but I do see an advantage of direct feedback on your edge angles when training alone.
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Re: Carv Device

Postby HeluvaSkier » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:44 am

The only carving feedback device I need attached to my boot is a ski. :lol:
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Re: Carv Device

Postby skijim13 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:57 pm

I heard it gives electric shock if you use leg steering or extension.
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Re: Carv Device

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:13 pm

Hmmmm, I was bought a set of these a few birthdays ago...first impressions were good - however I never used them as they are quite thick and are installed between the liner and the boot board...there simply wasn’t enough space for my foot. We all have close fitting boots with footbeds..

Anyway, not tried or tested. As innovative as the idea is, I am not convinced it has a place within this system..the best feedback you get is through your feet, which translates up through the kinetic chain. I think this tech is best suited to TTS movements that are dead footed and get no feedback from the feet/ skis....

Money better spent on proper alignment and the drill videos...
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Re: Carv Device

Postby skijim13 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:53 am

I agree just seeing if anyone thought these had a place my new boots I brought last year at camp are even more close fitting then the other ones.
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Re: Carv Device

Postby ErikCO » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:06 am

skijim13 wrote:I heard it gives electric shock if you use leg steering or extension.


You wish! Given the state of the ski industry I'd imagine it does just the opposite. Shocks you if you don't use a good strong extension in transition! That's really the problem with this type of device. Unless the analysis it uses comes from a PMTS-like perspective, it is not likely to be very useful. Just knowing your edge angles is a very limited piece of data. It is so much more important knowing that you used the correct movements to get to those edge angles.
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Re: Carv Device

Postby earlyriser » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:39 am

I have owned a pair for a couple of seasons. I have not used them much because of the tight boots issue, but I can say that the software has changed quite a bit in that time.

In the first season it just told me I needed to get my weight forward and press harder - so yes - not exactly helpful.

The latest software provided more useful info though - there are graphs that show where in the turn there is pressure, which seem to reflect deliberate actions in each run (i.e. if I deliberately pushed off at some point in the turn as an experiment that was shown in the visualisation).

It also gave me a much higher "score" that a buddy who reckons he is a great skier but definitely not Harb, which also made me like it better :)

So definitely quite fun to play with, and I would say not totally useless

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Re: Carv Device

Postby razie » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:55 pm

It comes in pairs? So we get one for the free foot, too? Cool! :wink:
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Re: Carv Device

Postby h.harb » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:48 pm

It would really help if someone would post the full name of the device and possibly a link to a web page. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke in the wind!
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Re: Carv Device

Postby GregM » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:57 pm

It's https://getcarv.com/

To me it looks like a bunch of smoke and mirrors :)
They mention their system is called "Balance Pressure Rotation and Edging". BIG WARNING SIGN right here :)
There are multiple videos and reviews available. My opinion is that you can measure so much data but if you don't have an idea on the proper technique it is useless.
Hey, just attach some sensors to my arms and fingers. Maybe some gloves with nano sensors would work. I want to learn to play violin really well. Some simple iPhone software might be helpful as well.
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Re: Carv Device

Postby earlyriser » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:24 am

GregM wrote:It's https://getcarv.com/

To me it looks like a bunch of smoke and mirrors :)
They mention their system is called "Balance Pressure Rotation and Edging". BIG WARNING SIGN right here :)


For sure it can’t teach you how to ski, or somehow magically change how you ski (apart from perhaps by crippling your feet by making your boots too tight), but it could provide some useful feedback after each run.

I for example struggle at times with the dreaded push off, and that appears in the semi circular visualisations at the end of the run

so I would agree totally useless as a way to learn to ski, but useful as a private form of factual feedback.
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Re: Carv Device

Postby gaku » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:16 am

earlyriser wrote:
GregM wrote:It's https://getcarv.com/

To me it looks like a bunch of smoke and mirrors :)
They mention their system is called "Balance Pressure Rotation and Edging". BIG WARNING SIGN right here :)


For sure it can’t teach you how to ski, or somehow magically change how you ski (apart from perhaps by crippling your feet by making your boots too tight), but it could provide some useful feedback after each run.

I for example struggle at times with the dreaded push off, and that appears in the semi circular visualisations at the end of the run

so I would agree totally useless as a way to learn to ski, but useful as a private form of factual feedback.


Seems to me a niche product for a niche market of performance skiers/top racers who want to supplement biofeedback with some hard data.

Personally, I have a problem to see how it gives anything but incremental, if any, maybe even detrimental (by subtracting focus away from more explanatory variables for performance, for instance by being negatively correlated with one's (or one's coach) ability to self-monitor/diagnose, to have a holistic perspective), value. One would have to be very careful in utilising it as a tool.
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Re: Carv Device

Postby HeluvaSkier » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:47 am

gaku wrote:Seems to me a niche product for a niche market of performance skiers/top racers who want to supplement biofeedback with some hard data.


Seems more like a niche product for the person who can't accept the harsh reality of a video camera. Metric measurement is useless if you don't know the performance lever to pull in order to improve the measurement.
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Re: Carv Device

Postby h.harb » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:27 am

OK, thanks for the identification. We tested and evaluated this device in Hintertux with the developer last spring. It's all wrong. It is a PSIA device that measures how bad you are skiing and doesn't take you toward PMTS movements. We did make an impression on the developers. They didn't know what they were looking for and they had already worked with PSIA and BASI. Both organizations screwed this up. If they had come to us first, it could have been effective, but now it's a mess.

HelluvaSkier has it right:
Metric measurement is useless if you don't know the performance lever to pull in order to improve the measurement.


This device doesn't give you any proper movement direction. It does tell you if you aren't using enough leg steering? LOL!
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Re: Carv Device

Postby gaku » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:23 pm

HeluvaSkier wrote:
gaku wrote:

Metric measurement is useless if you don't know the performance lever to pull in order to improve the measurement.


We'll said! This is what I meant, but articulated very cryptically, with the holistic (as in keeping a perspective on the essentials) comment. "Performance levers to pull", love that way of thinking of the movements.

Seems more like a niche product for the person who can't accept the harsh reality of a video camera.


I meant from the company's perspective. Their pilot group would probably aim towards the performance segment (incl. instructors), but yes, like many 'self-help tools', targeting certain stratas with characteristics susceptible to 'the quick fix/shortcut' seems a model for initial spike in demand, sustainable or not. :idea:
Last edited by gaku on Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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