New "Say something" material from Canada

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New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby noobSkier » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:44 pm

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Re: New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:05 am

Not defending the skiing here, but IMO, it is a bit unfair to pick on skiers / standards who do not represent 'the top' of the organization. Sort-of like judging PMTS by the skiing of a green level coach vs. a black level coach.
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Re: New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby noobSkier » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:24 pm

Heluva, it's also unfair to judge an organization based on the performance of a few talented athletes who are completely outside the average. These aren't level 1's here...this is their "blue" level.
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Re: New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:46 pm

noobSkier wrote:Heluva, it's also unfair to judge an organization based on the performance of a few talented athletes who are completely outside the average. These aren't level 1's here...this is their "blue" level.


My point is that it seems to me that a more fair assessment of the performance standards of CSIA would be to look at a typical Level 4 (not an outlier like JF Beaulieu who is notably influenced by sources outside of CSIA)... the same way that if I'm going to evaluate the performance standards of PSIA, I look to the PSIA demo team. Those who purport to be examples of their organization's performance standard should be held accountable for their skiing, no doubt (e.g. L4's, PSIA D-Team, etc... if you say you're 'the best' you better back it up)... But using aspiring Level 3 candidates (e.g. current L2's... which is a pretty low-level) as an example of 'CSIA skiing' is IMO, holding the wrong people accountable for performance standards, and not to mention casts judgement on intermediate skiers (who likely do not know any better) simply for the sake of casting judgement.

I imagine we would not have a positive reaction if a CSIA L4 instructor took it upon themselves to bash a current green level PMTS coach's skiing while they were working to meet the blue-level accreditation standards. Of course, it would be higher level skiing than in this L3 candidate clip as PMTS performance standards are MUCH higher, but a green level who is aspiring to meet the blue level likely wouldn't have the experience to meet CSIA L4 standards... and both are far from being the manifestation of the top-end capability of a seasoned black level PMTS skier... which is the standard we hold ourselves to.

There is a tendency among PMTS skiers to cast stones at other teaching organizations. At one point or another, we have all been guilty of it, but I think that when we are passing judgement, it is important for us to consider who we are looking at. We don't want to be in a situation where such behavior reflects poorly on PMTS (especially if coming from accredited coaches) and discourage people away from PMTS before they ever give it a shot. Personally, I'd rather be the inspiration for someone to try PMTS instead of the reason they stay away from it.
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Re: New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby noobSkier » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:43 pm

In fairness to these guys, they don't ski any worse than most of the Lvl 4's I've seen so I don't think its overly egregious to share a video that they themselves made public domain. I also haven't come out and made disparaging comments against anyone...only a reference to an inside joke that only we would understand. If this was crossing a line, please delete this thread.
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Re: New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby A.L.E » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:51 am

A big extension release is clearly a must for a compliant CSIA demonstration turn.
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Re: New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby SkiMoose » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:50 pm

If I could counteract consistently on my godforsaken right turn I'd be more inclined to criticize other skiing right now :lol: . I would definitely be interested to know how CSIA differs from PSIA in terms of what and how they teach. While the skiing in these clips is not good, I'd argue that it looks somewhat better than what I've seen out of most level 2 PSIA skiers.
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Re: New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby Vailsteve » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:28 pm

SkiMoose wrote:If I could counteract consistently on my godforsaken right turn...


LIKE!!! And my left , or right ....heck....I wish I could counter act period!
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Re: New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:43 pm

SkiMoose wrote:If I could counteract consistently on my godforsaken right turn I'd be more inclined to criticize other skiing right now


If you're 'doing it right' you won't have time to criticize because once you have CA on your right [footers / turn?] you should be looking to better skiers and saying:

  • Am I getting as much ski performance as so-and-so pro skier?
  • Am I using as much CA as this pro skier can use?
  • Have I taken this turn to the terrain they can do it on?
  • When I do take it to that terrain, am I surviving, executing, or using it as a playground?
  • Can I adapt what I know to a race course? Can I do it consistently?
  • I can ski a PMTS BPST... can I ski a Korean or Japanese version... a WC SL turn on a black pitch?
  • Can I make that turn anywhere with speed control?
  • Can I make the turn brushed... edge locked?
  • Can I make the turn with no speed control while keeping a cleanly carved ski AND maintaining the same radius arc?
  • Can I make the turn with more ski performance (e.g. offset across the hill) than the guy I was bench-marking?
  • Is there someone still better than you at something? Yeah? Keep working.
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Re: New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby Max_501 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:37 am

^^^I absolutely agree with Heluvaskier's post. I spend my dryland time studying the PMTS material and watching the best skiers in the world. The only time I analyze non-PMTS skiers is when I'm on the chairlift. I'll watch a skier and try to pick out their single most important movement to brush up on my MA skills.
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Re: New "Say something" material from Canada

Postby milesb » Wed May 22, 2019 9:16 am

It’s not a bad performance of what they are supposed to be doing. Keep in mind that in systems like that, becoming a better skier involves doing less steering, less leaning, less rotating. Which are all important parts of what they teach. It’s a self refuting system!

Contrast with pmts, where improvement typically involves doing more of the movements correctly.
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