Dry Slope

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Dry Slope

Postby tangem1 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:14 am

I was hoping to get some feedback from others on the forum as to if they think building a dry slope for summer practice of the two footed release is a good or bad idea.
Here is what i am thinking...
12 feet wide by 24 feet long dry slope (8ft long deck section 2ft off the ground, 8 foot long ramp section 14.5 degree slope, 8ft long runoff)
For the surface I was going to use AstroTurf snowsport xtreme.
My questions are;
Do you think a surface like this will be good surface to practice the release on?
Is it big enough to do the drill?
In addition to using this for practicing releases we will also use it to work on kick starts.
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby dtrick924 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:51 am

Harald recommends building a slant board for dry land training. Here's a link to instructions and video. https://harbskisystems.com/pages/slantboard-training
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby tangem1 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:05 am

dtrick924 wrote:Harald recommends building a slant board for dry land training. Here's a link to instructions and video. https://harbskisystems.com/pages/slantboard-training

dtrick924, thanks for the recommendation. We built a slantboard last year and used it regularly in the fall to practice the movements and also built a set of diy carvers, but neither seem as well suited to practicing the releases as a dry slope seems like it would be where you have to patiently wait for the release to happen. That being said the main reason for the dry slope is for her to work on developing her kickstart but if we only use it for that it could obviously be made much smaller than I would need for her to be able to practice the releases on. Just thinking that if I'm going to invest the time to make one for her to practice starts on this summer I might as well make it a little bigger so she can also practice releases on it if others think it would actually be a good training tool for it.
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby dtrick924 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:14 am

This still doesn't answer your construction question, but here is a TFR MA thread from go_large_or_go_home practicing on a dry slope. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4140
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby BrettBPotter » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:30 pm

So I read all the posts and advise in the listed thread by Go Large...
I believe your slope is clearly unique to the slope in the mentioned thread. Personally I'm dying to see this done. The thing I'd be flexible about is the slope angle. Your proposed length could possibly gethe a couple releases in each direction. 1 if it's to slick or steep.
I say, build it. And consider having the surface angle adjustable.
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby ChrisC » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:30 am

I used a dry slope a few years ago. It was the moving carpet type (Maxxtracks) that looks like a big treadmill set on an angle.

Unfortunately, the two footed release was probably the most difficult exercise to do on the artifical snow surface. I can PM if you want a detailed explanation, but the soft bristles in the Maxxtracks carpet don't behave like snow if the skis aren't moving reasonably quickly. The end result is that if you stand balanced on stationary skis and flatten the downhill ski then nothing much happens - the skis are stuck buried in the soft bristles and don't move downhill (release).

I think the thread posted above described lots of problems caused by the artificial surface, but that looked like it had slightly harder bristles than the Maxxtracks surface I used.

I suggest you ski on the particular surface that you are interested in using and check whether it's possible to do a two footed release from stationary before going any further.
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:31 am

Wow... that video brings back memories... so long ago...that was the start of my PMTS journey..I spent 18 months rebuilding my skiing - I was never out of my boots for more than about 3 days.. either snow, slant board or dry slope...

In those early days, I found practicing on the dry slope very challenging. I have been back to the dry slope this season and it is still challenging, but I am coping much better. You definitely have to be in your A game. I had a small breakthrough with my last visit - I tried over exaggerating all my movements, especially my CA.. bingo, grip returned to my skis. I felt less like skiing on tiny ball bearings on ice, to just ice...

WRT your plan to build a small slope. The friction coefficient of this surface is relatively high. One of the big challenges that I faced was carrying out the exercises on a slope that was far steeper than I would choose if I was on snow. With The perfect learning slope on snow, you simply wouldn’t bugde on a dry slope...
Also, you will need to keep the surface wet- these slopes have a sprinkler system constantly spraying a fine mist over the surface...in the summer, it’s like sliding over treacle...you will also need to get yourself a pair of short slalom skis. I use 158cm atomics. You will need to keep the edges super sharp and wax the skis with special dry slope wax - it is much harder...I did find that a 0.5deg base angle helped the skis release and brush waaaaaay easier...

I have spent a far amount of time recently isolating my tfr’s, executing one TFR to a stop. Then I would climb back up the slope to do it again. This is because the top of the slope is the steepest and reproduces the best tfr. I will measure the gradient and get back to you...
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby tangem1 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:52 am

ChrisC and go_large_or_go_home, thank you both for the feedback and recommendations. I will see if i can get a sample of the material (link below) to test the friction at 15 degrees. It sounds like that might not be steep enough to do the two footed release drill on though.

https://www.reliableracing.com/detail.cfm?edp=11385820
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:03 am

Tangem1
As promised...I went back to the dry slope today and measured the gradient. The portion of the slope that I find practicing stationary TFR’s the easiest is 20deg - somewhere between a blue and black diamond. I have tried to do this exercise on a 15deg slope and there is just too much friction. Added to this, the surface of the slope is not even so there will be areas where the bristles grab and hold the ski. I think this is due a combination of uneven wear of the bristles, the carpet is rolled out on the side of a hill and where the 6’ wide sections of the carpet are joined together. The main slope is about 15m wide and 260m long.
This is the stuff that our dry slope is made of...called Dendix. Hurts like hell when you fall on it..
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby tigernbr » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:13 am

This is probably expensive but it might be a better surface.

https://www.neveplast.com/prodotti/np30/
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby ChrisC » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:08 pm

tigernbr wrote:This is probably expensive but it might be a better surface.

https://www.neveplast.com/prodotti/np30/


This surface looks much better suited for the two footed release exercise than the soft carpet on the Maxxtracks indoor ski slopes. The skiers in the video are doing side slips with no major problems.

I think the key point is to have fairly stiff bristles, so the skis don't sink down when they are stationary.
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby tangem1 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:29 am

Thank you, go_large_or_go_home and ChrisC. I will revise the design to get to a 20% angle. I will reach out to Neveplast and see what the cost is and if I can get a small sample to compare to the snowturf.
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby tigernbr » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:05 am

Keep us posted!
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby tangem1 » Sun May 19, 2019 1:32 pm

Finished the dry slope. It works great for her to practice her kick starts on and works pretty well for practicing releases. There is really only enough room to do one release and then hike back up and do one the other way. It will at least give her a good workout hiking back up each time.
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Last edited by tangem1 on Wed May 22, 2019 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dry Slope

Postby SkiMoose » Tue May 21, 2019 7:47 pm

That is seriously awesome. Slantboard 2.0!
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