Misleading information

Misleading information

Postby h.harb » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:03 pm

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Re: Misleading information

Postby noobSkier » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:42 pm

Great addition to the blog HH. I've participated and competed in a few sports at a "high level" (you could say) and I found the pattern of technique distribution to be pretty consistent. You have 99% who are fumbling around trying to figure it out, and then you have the 1% who actually know and win all the competitions. This must be a law of nature of some kind.
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Re: Misleading information

Postby ErikCO » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:00 pm

Why is Hirscher so different from the other folks from the Austrian team? I don't follow race results religiously but, while the other Austrian team members do well, none of them really seem to stand out to me. Is it a particular coach that only works with Hirscher? Or is it that he is one of the few that actually understands the mechanics of skiing and essentially does his own analysis/coaching? I know he is considered one of the best, if not the best, technical racer of all time. Obviously part of that comes down to natural talent and feel for the courses, and a large part comes down to actually using proper technique (i.e. PMTS, even if he wouldn't necessarily use that name). I'm just interested in how he arrived at that last part and ends up being so much better at it than pretty much anyone else who is currently racing.
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Re: Misleading information

Postby h.harb » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:54 am

To Hirscher it's more important to get his feet back and set up his angles than to get edge grip. Most of the other racers at even this level are looking to hold the edge. Because Hirscher does so many things better he is dominant. Besides his ability to get his feet back, he counters better, he counteracts better, he is more flexible, and he's strong as all get out. Now that Ryding has figured out his Lange boots and Dynastar skis; look out he's really fast and he can hold his feet together which he could not do in his Fischer set up.

It's really pretty simple, get your feet back a long way and you can slice the snow by letting your skis move forward once past the apex. After you set the skis on edge and hold the initial carving action the skis move forward under your body as they carve. This makes carving even better and it also make the edges faster through the arc, never holding, over gripping. So few can do this well. The alternative is to throw the skis out to the side and stomp on them, doesn't work that well. Christofferson is making to long an arc this season, he's further off the pace than last season. It's tough to be as amazing as Hirscher year after year.
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Re: Misleading information

Postby Vailsteve » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:03 pm

h.harb wrote:
It's really pretty simple, get your feet back a long way and lettting your skis move forward once past the apex. After you set the skis on edge and hold the initial carving action the skis move forward under your body as they carve. This makes carving even better and it also make the edges faster through the arc, never holding, over gripping. So few can do this well..



Now THIS is interesting...letting the skis move forward under your body, making an even better carve. I assume you mUST have a VERY strong pullback movement to set up the next turn. Will have to experiment with this...and "it's really pretty simple" Harald?? Methinks not...
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Re: Misleading information

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:37 am

Vailsteve wrote:Now THIS is interesting...letting the skis move forward under your body, making an even better carve. I assume you mUST have a VERY strong pullback movement to set up the next turn. Will have to experiment with this...


This is an advanced high level movement that HH has written about in the past. If you have mastered speed control while carving then you may be stalling the ski when putting your hip close to the snow. In that case transferring some weight toward the heel removes some pressure from the front of the ski which allows the ski to continue slicing through the arc rather than bogging down from too much friction.

From 2009:

h.harb wrote:Chatter is caused by the following: a dead ski in an arc, skid to grip happening late, or too strong alignment. A dead ski is a ski that can no longer slice or move forward through the arc. A live slicing ski is not a well know occurrence in skiing, because so few skiers can do it and fewer can explain it.

Slicing a ski is the ski moving forward along it's carving arc until release. Skidding doesn't have slicing, so you have to be carving to realize slicing. Park and ride doesn't create slicing either. If you are carving and you are still getting chatter then the answer is, pull back the skis, then as the ski starts to engage in the high C, transfer some weight back toward the heel under your foot. Just this amount of movement will cause the ski to move forward into a slice (if it's on a high enough tipped angle) .

Here is the caveat, if you don't increase your tipping angles it won't work, because as you move pressure back to the heel, the ski will run away and you will be in the back seat. OK, now HH says this is the physics. Forward pressure on a ski and increasing tipping angles, causes a great deal of friction from the snow or ice, because they drive the tip into the surface. Consider this your braking system. The more you tip and the more forward you are, the better speed control you will realize. If you let the ski slice you lose forward tip pressure. So you had better increase tipping to make up for the ski moving forward through the arc. These are all degrees of movement and you need to play with these movements. I know what it takes me to achieve this, but how much and when is up to you to figure out, because everyone is different. Last comment, this doesn't work if you push your feet forward, because you lose both forward pressure and increased tipping ability, when you push your feet forward.
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Re: Misleading information

Postby Vailsteve » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:54 pm

Thanks for the reply Max501. This is just as I thought--NOT simple. But I intellectually understand what Harald and you are saying. I am working in Red tomorrow on the front side groomers, so I should have some time to experiment.

Someone (Harald?), posted a video titled the PMTS slice...going to YouTube to see if I can find and review it tonight. Should be a fun day tomorrow....
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Re: Misleading information

Postby HeluvaSkier » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:05 pm

Here you go:

Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

www.youtube.com/c/heluvaskier
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Re: Misleading information

Postby HeluvaSkier » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:08 pm

Here is a combination of stalling and slicing arcs.

Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

www.youtube.com/c/heluvaskier
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Re: Misleading information

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:12 pm

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