LTE tipping and ankle feel

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LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby noobSkier » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:22 pm

For inside ski tipping, I found that I can get a lot more leverage on the boot when I can feel the boot plastic with my lateral ankle bone; I also use this as a cue. The problem is that my outside ankles get progressively more sensitive throughout the day, and eventually quite sore. Has anyone else had a similar situation?
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby jbotti » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:08 pm

I don't have that problem but I did have one that was similar (my outside forefoot would get very sore from tipping). What liner are you using? Stock liner's suck. Go Intuition Pro Tongue or a good foam liner (not sure if there is one anymore) and my guess is that the problem will go away. If you are already in one of these I can't help.
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby noobSkier » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:12 pm

I'm using the stock liners. I can grind down the plastic a bit, but I really don't want to because I actually like the feedback from the boot. For the longest time I thought there was something wrong with my right ankle because I couldn't tip as strongly with it, but I eventually figured out that it was because I had too much space between the outside ankle bone and the boot. I guess with my foot shape, a lot of my tipping leverage comes from the ankle bones. It's the same for BTE tipping but the inside ankles don't give me any issues. I hope the intuition liner fixes this...my only reservation is the fitting. There are no shops in my area that carry Intuition products, but I've seen Intuitions home fitting process with heated socks of rice. Is there any reason to think the home fitting might be inferior to the commercial fitting process?
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby jbotti » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:21 pm

There are several variables that come into play when molding a Pro Tongue liner. Way better to work with someone that's done it 50-100 times than hoping you get them all right the first time. Having said that you can re-bake and mold again. Just bear in mind that each time you bake them you lose some volume. In a glove like shell fit baking a second or third time is not an issue. If you have any space you want the liner to take up you may lose some of that on the second bake (and more on the third).

The less pressure you put on the buckles while molding the higher volume the fit. If you don't buckle tight enough in the forefoot you will not be able to ski in them. Hence even if you want to take up space, looser up top but still pretty tight around the forefoot.

If you don't get the liner in correctly they can mold off center or slightly twisted and they are un-skiable that way.

The above are all reasons not to go it at home, but if you have to you have to.
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby noobSkier » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:02 pm

Thanks jbotti, I'll try not to mess it up.
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby noobSkier » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:52 pm

Quick question that doesn't deserve a thread: Do shells have a limited life span? If so why?
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby ToddW » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:30 pm

Shells get brittle and crack with age, the stress of high energy turns, and exposure to sunlight (UV).

Store them at room temp out of sunlight to prolong their life.

I swapped my last pair of b2 out after 300 days in consultation with HSS. Some do so more frequently (200 or 250 days). But it’s not an obvious decision what to do. One distinguished member of this forum reportedly has a vast number of days [edit: 1,000+, see two posts below] on his shells and he can bend the heck out of a ski, thus placing much stress on his shells.

Another forum member who gets lots of mileage in each season has cracked two shells that I know of in the last decade.

If your shells are older, look them over for fine cracks frequently, especially around the pivot points of the cuff.
Last edited by ToddW on Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby Vailsteve » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:34 am

“Brittle” is the good word to describe older shells, or loss of suppleness. My Raptor B2 boots have well over 400 days skiing on them... Diana, Walker and Becky have made multiple adjustments over the past two years to keep my feet from killing me.

Last season they were still ok, but with only 20 days on snow so far this season, my feet are hurting already. (My working days are fairly long— boots go on around 7:30 AM , on the mountain at 8, and most days I don’t get back to the locker room until 4 or 4:15. Life sucks! Not.... :D

Diana recommended the new Head R3’s, so lucky me, I am off to HSS tomorrow. Am curious to see what Diana recommends re keeping the stock liner or reuse my Intuition Pro liner. My footbeds should still be OK as we made new ones last season in Alignment Camp.

I try to update with a quick review after a couple of weeks....

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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby Max_501 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:24 pm

My Nordica Doberman 130s must have 1000+ days. They are pretty beat up but no cracks so far. They are still my go to boot even though I have the Raptor 150 (ski great but too hard getting in/out and I don't need a 150 now that I've given up running gates).
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby Vailsteve » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:13 pm

ToddW wrote: One distinguished member of this forum reportedly has a vast number of days [edit: 1,000+, see two posts below] on his shells and he can bend the heck out of a ski, thus placing much stress on his shells.


I think we now who that "distinguished member" is! Max, that is IMPRESSIVE!
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby noobSkier » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:08 pm

So I bought a nice pair of new B3 shells to go with new liners. Problem is, I fear the new shells might be too small...maybe 1/8" of space between the heel and the shell. My current shells are tight but this is another level. Has anyone been fitted in a shell this tight, and how much can you realistically grind the toe box for more space?
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby jbotti » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:26 pm

Everyone is different but I can't ski in a boot with more room than that. Its easy to get 7mm from grinding the toe. With a punch you can get a centimeter. People with higher volume feet will like this fit less well than someone like me who has a super low volume foot. But if isn't super tight elsewhere and its just length, you will not have any issue adding 7-10 mms.
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby noobSkier » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:36 pm

Great. Thanks Jbotti, this is what I needed to know. Intuition's fitting kit also comes with a toe box frame, but I like my toes to be totally immobile. Does HSS use a toe box frame for molding liners?
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby Obrules15 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:59 am

noobSkier wrote:Great. Thanks Jbotti, this is what I needed to know. Intuition's fitting kit also comes with a toe box frame, but I like my toes to be totally immobile. Does HSS use a toe box frame for molding liners?


Yes, they did when they molded my Pro Tongues. My feeling is that the toes collapse a bit later so it's best to start with some room (I ended up needing 2 additional punches to the liner for my freaky long big toe).

You can remold at least up to three times so you could try first without or use the small frame instead of the large one.
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Re: LTE tipping and ankle feel

Postby Max_501 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:52 am

noobSkier wrote:So I bought a nice pair of new B3 shells to go with new liners. Problem is, I fear the new shells might be too small...maybe 1/8" of space between the heel and the shell.


Did you test with a footbed in shell?
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