Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with 7

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Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with 7

Postby AnI » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:06 pm

I realize that not too many frequent visitors to this forum need it... But just in case: Level9 sports still has in stock the 2015 model (white/flashy yellow) of Head/Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings.

What is special about these bindings, is that the 2015 model year has a confirmed and documented in Tyrolia technical manual delta of 7 mm. I learned from talking to the HSS shop that Head/Tyrolia has the habit of changing delta angle of nominally the same bindings model from year to year. Finding out the model year of the bindings offered in an internet or retail store, and finding what delta these bindings have, is quite challenging.

Level9, at the time of this writing (Sept 21, 2018), sells these bindings directly for $75 (with a huge discount!)

https://www.levelninesports.com/head-fr ... i-bindings

or through e-bay for $105

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Head-Freeflex- ... .l4275.c10

They have Level 9 ID number 36511, and manufacturer part number 100510. I have exact same bindings on my son's skis; I kept the original box and was able to confirm the manufacturers part number to make sure these are the same bindings.

I measured delta on my son's skis as 6.35 mm, according to the technical manual it is 7 mm. Close enough. This is the highest delta in adult bindings that I know of. I have, I believe, a year earlier model of the same bindings on my i.SL, they are also 7 mm delta. I do not know if delta has changed on newer model years of the same bindings.

Delta, in case you do not know, is the difference between the height of toe and heel pieces. The higher is the delta, the more the bindings push you into forward stance. With my height and long femurs, I had significant problems with the fore-aft balance. I learned, through trial and error, that I need at least 6, better 7 mm of delta. It is very common for bindings on the market to have a lower delta, e.g., 2-4 mm. With that, I was losing balance to the rear, sometimes big way, and had problems with black toes several times per season. Not anymore.

Knee bindings are also good in this sense, their delta is 6 mm. That works for me well, too, but nothing below that.
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby tigernbr » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:25 am

Just to clarify, a delta of 7mm means the heal is 7 mm higher than the toe?
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby ChrisC » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:17 pm

I have some of these FF 11 bindings from Level nine and they have a 7mm delta (stand-height toe 14mm, stand-height heel 21mm).

I believe you can buy shims to alter the delta, but 7mm is ok for me.
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby tigernbr » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:48 am

I just bought the 2018 i.Speed with the PRD 12 bindings. I am not sure what the delta is on that binding. I am attending the Blue/Dark Blue camp in December. I'm sure HSS will look to see if I need an adjustment during the on-snow alignment check.
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby thatguy_onthehill » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:56 am

You can download the tech manuals for most years 2011-2018 online with a bit of a deep dive google search. Since Tyrolia makes the same bindings for their own brand, Head, Fischer, and Elan, these are readily available. The Fischer manuals, for the past several years, convert the delta (mm) into degrees ramp. Be watchful here as similar looking bindings (race vs rec for example) can have significantly different ramp angles. Hope that helps
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby AnI » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:01 pm

tigernbr, I found 2017-18 Head/Tyrolia tech manual, it says there are two types of PRD 11, their delta, depending on the model, can be 3.5, 4.5, or 5.5 mm. Looks like they are right in the middle of the range from 1 to 7 mm. If you do not know better, it is the right place to start.

There is no right or wrong with bindings delta. Some people need more forward lean coming from bindings, others need less. It is determined by their anatomy, their skiing technique, and also by their boots.

Correct, delta is the difference between height of the heel and of the tow parts of the bindings. Generally, it is possible to install a flat piece of plastic under the bindings to increase the delta (or under the toe to decrease it). Head sells race kits with plates and screws to adjust the delta in race models of their skis, with other manufacturers it varies. A piece of flat plastic of any thickness is not a problem. The problem is usually to find screws of the correct length (if you install a 2 mm or 3 mm lift, ideally, you need longer screws). Ski screws are M5.5, totally not standard, can have at least 3 shapes and sizes of their head, and they are hard to find in desired length. So, in theory one can install a permanent heel lift, but may be harder than it seems due to parts (screws) availability.
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby tigernbr » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:30 am

Thanks for the information AnI. I bought boots with HSS last season before the green/blue camp and they installed plates after a day or two on the snow. I was using rental skis at that time. This year, I bought my own i.Speeds and am attending another HSS camp in December. On snow alignment assessment is part of the camp so I am sure they will determine if I need any adjustments to the delta now that I have new skis. Is there any way to measure what it is now with the ski/boot combo I have?
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby Erik » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:08 am

Harb Ski Systems has demo skis with a heel lift on them, and if they think that campers may need a higher delta they will put them on those skis to observe how it changes their skiing. After observing the difference, they will review the assessment of need for heel lift with the camper.

Let Diana know before the camp that you will be on new skis. Since you are on boots and skis they are very familiar with, she will know the net impact of the binding and the boot, and if you remember what skis/bindings you were on last year, she may be able to tell if there is any significant difference for you. Tell your coach that you are on new skis on the first day, they will keep that in mind as they watch you ski.

It might be nice intellectually to know what the Delta is on your bindings, but it doesn't matter if you only have one pair of skis. If you get more skis, awareness that the Delta could be different might become relevant in your choice of binding.

Also, in the Tyrolia/Head PowerRail binding system different toe and heel pairs can be swapped out on the PowerRail. The PRX bindings have a higher Delta than the PRD (or they did when I bought my skis with PRX - not sure about current Tyrolia offerings). So, a higher Delta can be achieved by using a different model toe/heel pair on the PowerRail, but that does not offer as much flexibility as the choice of height for an installed heel lift.
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby tigernbr » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:41 pm

Will do Erik. Thanks for the advice!
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby AnI » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:28 pm

tigernbr wrote: Is there any way to measure what it is now with the ski/boot combo I have?

This is very easy. You get a digital caliper, set it to measure in millimeters, and measure thickness of ski + race plate (if applicable) + binding where the boot is in contact with the toe piece and with the heel piece, like this:

Image

Then you calculate the difference between the readings for the heel and the toe. The difference, in my experience, is usually about 0.5 mm or so less than the specified delta. If I measure 3.5 mm difference, the officially specified delta is most likely 4 mm. Maybe I measure it not the best way, or they measure it differently.

In the camp, ask the coach to look at your fore-aft balance. If they have concerns, they may offer you a temporary 2 mm flat shim. Since your boots are plated already, adding a 2 mm shim is not a problem. Diana has a couple of skis with heel lifts, but you may be better off experimenting on your own, familiar skis.

You can do this test yourself. Buy a 2 mm (or 3 mm) thick ABS sheet on eBay for several dollars shipped, cut a rectangle which fits well onto the boot heel plate, and attach it with duct tape. See how you feel skiing like this, and if you feel better or worse. Just be careful to not ski too aggressively as your binding may release prematurely with a shim.

As I said before, only a fraction of the population benefits from large delta, mainly because of their long femurs and/or heavy hips and rear ends. If you do not know if you need a higher delta, you probably do not need it :)

By the way, where are you located geographically?
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby tigernbr » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:12 pm

I am in Louisiana. I don’t have long femurs, heavy hips or a big rear end. Lol
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Re: Level9sports still has 2015 Tyrolia PRO 11 bindings with

Postby Max_501 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:56 am

AnI wrote:As I said before, only a fraction of the population benefits from large delta, mainly because of their long femurs and/or heavy hips and rear ends.


A large percentage of the population fits within that description.
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