Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

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Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby blackthorn » Wed May 30, 2018 8:48 pm

The ACBAES books were first published in 2004. So, from then until now what do people see in the evolution of WC racing technique, and also of PMTS.
From my very limited understanding, for WC racing, I don't see a great deal. I see mainly refinement - skis, boots, athleticism etc. but ?same fundamentals.
In PMTS the emphasis on "holding the counter" does seem to be an evolution from the original. Also the SuperPhantom. What others are there?
I am thinking more about general PMTS skiing, not so much PMTS drills which have obviously evolved over the years, similarly PMTS teaching method.
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby h.harb » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:32 pm

Book 1 ACBAES was published in 1997. If the US Ski Team had used it for development at that time, the US would be 20 years ahead of where they are now. Marcel Hirscher is the perfect example of PMTS at the highest level. Reilly McGlashin is one of the best PMTS freeskiers. Reily learned it through coaching and studying, reading. Hirscher is a natural, which only goes to prove how natural PMTS is for getting to the top of the sport. PSIA and USSA will never bring you to the top of the sport because they aren't at the top of the sport.


I could not add or write everything I knew or coached in my years with racers in my first book. It would have been too overwhelming. So what has evolved with PMTS isn't so new for me; it's just what the other teaching and coaching systems didn't know about skiing. I let that information out over the years as needed. Max501 can attest to this, he took many lessons to evolve his skiing and he isn't don't anything much different from what he learned 15 years ago. He is just doing everything better as are many here on the forum are, like Jbotti, Greg and Geoffda.

Here are some of the most obvious movement differences between PMTS and other systems.

1. CB
2. CA
3. Hold CA in transition, (slightly newer)
4. inside foot pull back
5. inside leg, flexing, and tipping. I was the first to introduce this for shaped ski skiing and racing, many have copied it. Many have not!
6. Transitions without standing or moving the hips forward. The USSA, US Ski Team and PSIA coaches and instructors, still don't get this or understand it.
7. The "Michael Von GrĂ¼nigen" turn, only the Austrians use this on purpose.
8. Early angles, not early pressure. Still not understood today.
9. flexing to release, collapsing the outside leg
10. Lift the tip at the point of release, this is more advanced, has come to be part of the system in the last 3 seasons.
11. The No Swing pole tap. In the last 7 seasons.

To name just a few.

So you see without adding anything new to PMTS; we are still 20 years ahead of the rest. There are pockets of Austrian coaching that are using the right movements, but it's only in race coaching by the best.
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby blackthorn » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:37 pm

Thankyou HH !!

This is the response I had really hoped for. WorldCup racing and PMTS skiing in a nutshell - as true today as it was many years ago. The books, and the drills are just the beginning. Then there are the threads on this forum and info on the HH blog.
I remain convinced, and use my PMTS lens for all things skiing.
Thankyou again.

Thread closed? !!!! :)
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby h.harb » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:15 pm

Pleased to help!
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby blackthorn » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:04 am

To Hirscher it's more important to get his feet back and set up his angles than to get edge grip. Most of the other racers at even this level are looking to hold the edge. Because Hirscher does so many things better he is dominant. Besides his ability to get his feet back, he counters better, he counteracts better, he is more flexible, and he's strong as all get out. Now that Ryding has figured out his Lange boots and Dynastar skis; look out he's really fast and he can hold his feet together which he could not do in his Fischer set up.

It's really pretty simple, get your feet back a long way and you can slice the snow by letting your skis move forward once past the apex. After you set the skis on edge and hold the initial carving action the skis move forward under your body as they carve. This makes carving even better and it also make the edges faster through the arc, never holding, over gripping. So few can do this well. The alternative is to throw the skis out to the side and stomp on them, doesn't work that well. Christofferson is making to long an arc this season, he's further off the pace than last season. It's tough to be as amazing as Hirscher year after year.


I thought it might be useful to add this quote from HH and to add to his list


12. Slicing the skis
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:15 pm

Imageg
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby blackthorn » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:28 am

from the recent HH blog
The Use of Muscles and Movements in top-level World Cup Skiers

The previous Post (one article below) in which I demonstrate the differences between world cup skiers prompted me to offer a more complete explanation as to what is happening in detail. The best racers have figured this out, the less efficient show more rotation and leaning, without the effective coiling shown by the best.


13. Coiling ( advanced )
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby blackthorn » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:28 pm

9. flexing to release, collapsing the outside leg


I would like to add to this if I may

9. flexing to release, collapsing the outside leg
9a. flex to engage
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby Ken » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:23 pm

8. Early angles, not early pressure.

I've been working this a lot this winter. The. Missing. Link. in my skiing.
a--earlier
b--pull the feet way back
c--release & engage and create more angle
d--earlier

The result is great. My control on hard steep slopes is my best ever. The arcs are smoother. The speed is more controlled due to better regulation of the radius of the turn in the upper 1/3rd of the arc, the high-c. The compliments from other skiers come in. They have no idea what I'm doing or how I'm doing it.

10. Lift the tip at the point of release

This is very interesting. It helps set everything up for a better transition. I can only do it in the morning when I'm fresh, not in the afternoon when I'm tired. I'm still working on it.
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby bartharb » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:41 am

yes , early angles but it does not come byitself I still have to focus on it. Soon when I come
out of the turn I have to think on it.An as you said also for me : late afternoon it does not work so well
anymore, looks CA and CB is coming too late...
But this helped me : Harald wrote this in his book. : start the release when there is still pressure
on the stance leg.(you get a float) It 's true, it makes the early angles easier.
Another thing what helps to change angles is the weighted release. For me it is easier to
coordinate the CA and CB during and after the angle change.
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby h.harb » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:46 am

Just because "it's easier for you" doesn't mean it the right thing to do!
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Re: Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

Postby blackthorn » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:22 pm

HH says
5. inside leg, flexing, and tipping. I was the first to introduce this for shaped ski skiing and racing, many have copied it. Many have not!


It might be useful to add

5a. - concept of the "O" frame
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