One-footed release vs. Super Phantom

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Re: One-footed release vs. Super Phantom

Postby Robert0325 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:34 am

jbotti wrote:If you don't tip the LTE first the BTE of the other ski will engage and you will have a wedge/stem. This is the whole point of the phantom/super phantom move.

So I get the importance of lifting the inside foot to prevent stemming but I don’t yet understand the importance of the tilt of the inside foot because it will be in fresh air and therefore does not appear in my mind to be accomplishing anything.
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Re: One-footed release vs. Super Phantom

Postby jbotti » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:54 am

Best to use the correct terminology. What is important is that the LTE tips, it does not matter that it is in the air or on the snow (unless of course we are doing a phantom/SP where the non stance ski is lifted). The BTE will follow the LTE when tipped. So what is actually driving the engagement of the BTE of the new stance ski is the tipping of the non stance ski. As every skier can notice it does not work the other way, in that the LTE will not follow the BTE especially if the BTE is engaged before releasing the old stance ski.

Not sure how long its been since you read ACBAES1 but you might consider re-reading it. These questions are at the heart of all PMTS skiing and its all outlined in book one.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: One-footed release vs. Super Phantom

Postby jbotti » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:01 am

I think Lito called it Phantom Edging which he stole from HH and Harald doesn't love the term but in answering your question this is what is going on when the ski is in the air. Tipping is an essential and generally the most important, so we tip all the time from beginning to the end of every arc (whether the skis is on snow or in the air) and as I said in the previous post, the BTE follows the LTE. Why do great PMTS skiers and WC get such high edge angles? They tip the LTE to extreme levels and the BTE follows.

Again not sure how much reading you've done or camps you have attended but this is the very core of PMTS.
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Re: One-footed release vs. Super Phantom

Postby Max_501 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:17 am

Search this forum for terms like "kinetic chain", "tipping", "co-contraction", "LTE" and there is a wealth of information. Here's a thread that gets into co-contraction:

Skeletal Support

and a post from searching on "kinetic chain"

geoffda wrote:
DougD wrote:Geoffda,

Very insightful posts and insights on this thread. Thank you.

For the avoidance of doubt, I believe that when you stated, "Once we begin to generate energy in our skiing and our turns become dynamic, we no longer rely on tipping movements to cause our center of mass to move into the new turn.", you did not mean to suggest that we should cease Tipping. You meant only that the use of Tipping movements becomes more refined.

My understanding is that active, controlled Tipping is an integral component of every PMTS turn at every level. However, once a skier can properly harness the huge amount of energy stored in a dynamically loaded ski (with correctly timed Releasing movements), the relatively tiny amount of energy available from Tipping is no longer tasked to be the primary mover of our center of mass. With ski rebound doing the heavy lifting, so to speak, Tipping is primarily used for the subtler work of controlling balance and edge angles.

Please correct if I've misunderstood.


Correct. In order to stay in balance when releasing and unleashing turn forces, we actually have to be correspondingly aggressive with our tipping, etc. In high energy skiing, our center of mass will move into the new turn once we release. If we let it lead the way, we will either end up hip dumping or leaning in, or even propelled into a HeluvaRelease. None of these outcomes are conducive to balance and ski control (particularly the last one). Instead, we want to use correct movements of tipping, etc. to keep ahead of the game and take advantage of the kinetic chain to stay in sync with our center of mass as it moves into the new turn, as if we were accomplishing the center of mass movement by tipping, etc. alone.

Edit: Here's a nice description of why we have to keep tipping:
Max_501 wrote:[The reason why] we tip is to activate the kinetic chain so we have very precise balance control throughout the turn. If you skip tipping the kinetic chain is not activated from the base and then much larger muscles are used to attempt to stay in balance (with varying degrees of success). It really is that simple.
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Re: One-footed release vs. Super Phantom

Postby Robert0325 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:27 am

OK thanks for all the info on this. I've had a quick read through the posts, terminology is a bit complicated for me. I think I'll go back and read book 1 as Jbotti suggests. Curious though, what is a "HeluvaRelease" described in one of Max101's referenced posts?
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Re: One-footed release vs. Super Phantom

Postby Max_501 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:42 pm

Robert0325 wrote:Curious though, what is a "HeluvaRelease" described in one of Max101's referenced posts?


Top right corner of this webpage has a search box. Enter heluvarelease and watch the video in the oldest thread in the search results.
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Re: One-footed release vs. Super Phantom

Postby Robert0325 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:20 am

Max_501 wrote:
Robert0325 wrote:Curious though, what is a "HeluvaRelease" described in one of Max101's referenced posts?


Top right corner of this webpage has a search box. Enter heluvarelease and watch the video in the oldest thread in the search results.

Spectacular!
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