Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

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Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby nickia » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:47 pm

Hi,

I have been skiing on my first pair of ski boots since I started skiing in 2010. It is a 26 Salomon Mission X5 which has a 55 flex rating.

It is definitely a bit too large for my foot as my measured mondo is only 24.

The ideal plan is to go to a PMTS camp next year and get my boot properly fitted there. However, I'm cannot guarantee that I could go.

Should I buy a new pairs of transition boot now that is not ideal but still better than my old boots or just stay with my old boots until I can get it fitted?

Another solution is Dodge. They seem to have an online fitting program...
Last edited by nickia on Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby Obrules15 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:43 pm

What about getting a PMTS *approved* boot that they could work with next year. If you read through some of the old threads you'll see references to boots that have good geometry and are easy to work on.
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby nickia » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:35 am

Obrules15 wrote:What about getting a PMTS *approved* boot that they could work with next year. If you read through some of the old threads you'll see references to boots that have good geometry and are easy to work on.



Thanks Obrules15. I did some searches and thinking of getting a 23.5 Lange RP ZB with 140 flex. This is the only boot that I could find in my size. My measured Mondo is 24. This should be ok?

The total cost will be $400 so even if I need to get a new pair next year, it is not too big of a waste...
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby Obrules15 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:48 am

nickia wrote:
Obrules15 wrote:What about getting a PMTS *approved* boot that they could work with next year. If you read through some of the old threads you'll see references to boots that have good geometry and are easy to work on.



Thanks Obrules15. I did some searches and thinking of getting a 23.5 Lange RP ZB with 140 flex. This is the only boot that I could find in my size. My measured Mondo is 24. This should be ok?

The total cost will be $400 so even if I need to get a new pair next year, it is not too big of a waste...


I definitely think it's a better idea than a Dodge which they can't work on, and is 3x the cost. Can you call the shop? Would you be able to get mods done to the ZB? Because I think that that's a race plug boot that would require shell mods.
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby nickia » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:24 am

Obrules15 wrote:
nickia wrote:
Obrules15 wrote:What about getting a PMTS *approved* boot that they could work with next year. If you read through some of the old threads you'll see references to boots that have good geometry and are easy to work on.



Thanks Obrules15. I did some searches and thinking of getting a 23.5 Lange RP ZB with 140 flex. This is the only boot that I could find in my size. My measured Mondo is 24. This should be ok?

The total cost will be $400 so even if I need to get a new pair next year, it is not too big of a waste...


I definitely think it's a better idea than a Dodge which they can't work on, and is 3x the cost. Can you call the shop? Would you be able to get mods done to the ZB? Because I think that that's a race plug boot that would require shell mods.



Thanks Obrules15. I just read up what "plug" boots are. Thank you for pointing this out. Do you know how much work and cost is typically required to fit a plug boot? Would it make more sense to get something else instead?
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby Obrules15 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:09 am

nickia wrote:


Thanks Obrules15. I just read up what "plug" boots are. Thank you for pointing this out. Do you know how much work and cost is typically required to fit a plug boot? Would it make more sense to get something else instead?


Let me tell you a little about my boot journey. I measure a 24.75. I was originally put in 25.5 Lange RX Low Volume Boot by a decent fitter who did canting and outside foot punches/stretches. It was OK the first season when I was returning after an 8 year hiatus (I started skiing in '79-'80 on straight skis when I was 9, got stuck in Stem Christy's as I never skied enough as an adult to clear those old movement patterns). The second season on those boots the liners completely packed out and the boot became very sloshy, I tried an after market liner which helped but I still had major problems.

Last spring after I decided I'd be doing a camp this year I decided to go to the shop in CO and just get my aligment session early. They were able to make a ton of amazing adjustments and gave me custom footbeds. Those mods helped a quite a lot but the boots were still way too big. When I went for camp I ended up trading down to a Head Raptor in a 24.5, which I love.

I've never bought a boot online and taken it someplace for shell mods, though I have recently heard of a fitter in Quebec who doesn't sell boots just works on them, I don't know what they charge.

I definitely don't know the best way for you to proceed but I was miserable in a boot that was only half as much too big for my foot as yours is for you so I agree that you'd be happier in something different.

I'm pretty sure you could go to colorado and get a boot there for the same price as a $1400 Dodge Boot. The Head Raptor 120 is $650 (footbeds/canting are extra) flights are less than $500 from your area, a B&B near the shop instead of slopeside accomodations is <$150/night. Overall I think you come out ahead just to make the pilgrimage to the shop. If international flights are too expensive the trip to Detroit driving the QEW is an easy drive and flights on Delta from that airport to CO are reasonable. Oh, and of course you could ski in Colorado, the shop is on the way to everything.

P.S. Flights to Denver from Detroit are $176 round trip right now.
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby DougD » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:49 am

What he just said.

Your current boots will make meaningful skiing progress impossible, whether in PMTS or any other system.

The best time and money I've spent in 35 years of skiing were my visit to HSS. I ony needed new footbeds and canting. You need much more. No other shop I've used (at least a dozen) had the knowledge & skills to do boots correctly. HSS does.

A visit there will do more for your skiing than a season ticket at any resort any where.
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby nickia » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:18 pm

Obrules15 wrote:
nickia wrote:


Thanks Obrules15. I just read up what "plug" boots are. Thank you for pointing this out. Do you know how much work and cost is typically required to fit a plug boot? Would it make more sense to get something else instead?


Let me tell you a little about my boot journey. I measure a 24.75. I was originally put in 25.5 Lange RX Low Volume Boot by a decent fitter who did canting and outside foot punches/stretches. It was OK the first season when I was returning after an 8 year hiatus (I started skiing in '79-'80 on straight skis when I was 9, got stuck in Stem Christy's as I never skied enough as an adult to clear those old movement patterns). The second season on those boots the liners completely packed out and the boot became very sloshy, I tried an after market liner which helped but I still had major problems.

Last spring after I decided I'd be doing a camp this year I decided to go to the shop in CO and just get my aligment session early. They were able to make a ton of amazing adjustments and gave me custom footbeds. Those mods helped a quite a lot but the boots were still way too big. When I went for camp I ended up trading down to a Head Raptor in a 24.5, which I love.

I've never bought a boot online and taken it someplace for shell mods, though I have recently heard of a fitter in Quebec who doesn't sell boots just works on them, I don't know what they charge.

I definitely don't know the best way for you to proceed but I was miserable in a boot that was only half as much too big for my foot as yours is for you so I agree that you'd be happier in something different.

I'm pretty sure you could go to colorado and get a boot there for the same price as a $1400 Dodge Boot. The Head Raptor 120 is $650 (footbeds/canting are extra) flights are less than $500 from your area, a B&B near the shop instead of slopeside accomodations is <$150/night. Overall I think you come out ahead just to make the pilgrimage to the shop. If international flights are too expensive the trip to Detroit driving the QEW is an easy drive and flights on Delta from that airport to CO are reasonable. Oh, and of course you could ski in Colorado, the shop is on the way to everything.

P.S. Flights to Denver from Detroit are $176 round trip right now.



Thanks Obrules15 & Doug. I agree my current setup is hindering my skiing progress. I re-measured my foot and it is 2 sizes smaller than my current boot size :shock: . Sometimes I could feel my boots floating under my feet.

I've decided against the Lange plug boot after consulting you and jbotti because it requires extensive modification which defeats the purpose of a stop-gap boots until I can visit HSS. Travelling to Denver is out of the picture for now partly due to cost but mostly due to the grief of flying and crossing the border (and packing :lol: ).

As a compromise, I ordered two pairs of Lange RS 120 SC junior boots with 120 flex in 23.5 and 24.5 as recommended by Jbotti. Two pairs cost less than $400 plus some minor punching if needed, and I can return one of them. I will use this until I can visit HSS.

Thanks again. I will post some update once the boots arrive.
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby Obrules15 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:05 pm

nickia wrote:
Obrules15 wrote:
nickia wrote:


Thanks Obrules15. I just read up what "plug" boots are. Thank you for pointing this out. Do you know how much work and cost is typically required to fit a plug boot? Would it make more sense to get something else instead?


Let me tell you a little about my boot journey. I measure a 24.75. I was originally put in 25.5 Lange RX Low Volume Boot by a decent fitter who did canting and outside foot punches/stretches. It was OK the first season when I was returning after an 8 year hiatus (I started skiing in '79-'80 on straight skis when I was 9, got stuck in Stem Christy's as I never skied enough as an adult to clear those old movement patterns). The second season on those boots the liners completely packed out and the boot became very sloshy, I tried an after market liner which helped but I still had major problems.

Last spring after I decided I'd be doing a camp this year I decided to go to the shop in CO and just get my aligment session early. They were able to make a ton of amazing adjustments and gave me custom footbeds. Those mods helped a quite a lot but the boots were still way too big. When I went for camp I ended up trading down to a Head Raptor in a 24.5, which I love.

I've never bought a boot online and taken it someplace for shell mods, though I have recently heard of a fitter in Quebec who doesn't sell boots just works on them, I don't know what they charge.

I definitely don't know the best way for you to proceed but I was miserable in a boot that was only half as much too big for my foot as yours is for you so I agree that you'd be happier in something different.

I'm pretty sure you could go to colorado and get a boot there for the same price as a $1400 Dodge Boot. The Head Raptor 120 is $650 (footbeds/canting are extra) flights are less than $500 from your area, a B&B near the shop instead of slopeside accomodations is <$150/night. Overall I think you come out ahead just to make the pilgrimage to the shop. If international flights are too expensive the trip to Detroit driving the QEW is an easy drive and flights on Delta from that airport to CO are reasonable. Oh, and of course you could ski in Colorado, the shop is on the way to everything.

P.S. Flights to Denver from Detroit are $176 round trip right now.



Thanks Obrules15 & Doug. I agree my current setup is hindering my skiing progress. I re-measured my foot and it is 2 sizes smaller than my current boot size :shock: . Sometimes I could feel my boots floating under my feet.

I've decided against the Lange plug boot after consulting you and jbotti because it requires extensive modification which defeats the purpose of a stop-gap boots until I can visit HSS. Travelling to Denver is out of the picture for now partly due to cost but mostly due to the grief of flying and crossing the border (and packing :lol: ).

As a compromise, I ordered two pairs of Lange RS 120 SC junior boots with 120 flex in 23.5 and 24.5 as recommended by Jbotti. Two pairs cost less than $400 plus some minor punching if needed, and I can return one of them. I will use this until I can visit HSS.

Thanks again. I will post some update once the boots arrive.


The times they are a changing.

I grew up in Detroit and we used to go back and forth across the border all the time. My Aunt, who lived five minutes away from the tunnel used to do all her grocery shopping and bought her gas in Canada. I know crossing the border these days is way more involved but are you sure it's as big of a hassle as you think it is? My mother still lives there and doesn't think it's that bad. Unless your ethnicity makes you a target it's probably not as bad as you think. At $176 per round trip flight, I feel like somebody (you) should take advantage of it even if I can't. Granted, I used to hold platinum frequent flyer status so negotiating air travel is easy for me but the DTW airport is easy and only about 3.5 hours away from Toronto ($176 Round Trip Flights). Packing, bah, you just need underwear and a toothbrush for two nights (I really want to live vicariously through you).

Regardless, I think the Jr Race Boots sound like a good idea as a stop gap and at that price how can you not be happy. Good luck!
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby DougD » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:26 pm

nickia wrote:Thanks Obrules15 & Doug. I agree my current setup is hindering my skiing progress. I re-measured my foot and it is 2 sizes smaller than my current boot size :shock: . Sometimes I could feel my boots floating under my feet.

I've decided against the Lange plug boot after consulting you and jbotti because it requires extensive modification which defeats the purpose of a stop-gap boots until I can visit HSS. Travelling to Denver is out of the picture for now partly due to cost but mostly due to the grief of flying and crossing the border (and packing :lol: ).

As a compromise, I ordered two pairs of Lange RS 120 SC junior boots with 120 flex in 23.5 and 24.5 as recommended by Jbotti. Two pairs cost less than $400 plus some minor punching if needed, and I can return one of them. I will use this until I can visit HSS.

Thanks again. I will post some update once the boots arrive.

Seems like a good plan (as a stopgap), assuming you're able to make one of the Langes work for you of course.

Boots too large is the #1 cause of poor skiing development amongst less experienced skiers - and even many more experienced skiers.

The problem with fitting the new Langes will be that you have no experience in how a correctly fitted ski boot should fit. A correct fit will feel very strange to you (and will seem impossibly tight). Unfortunately, 90% of shops have no idea either.

Best bet (short of a visit to a good shop) is to do a shell fit. Pull the inner boots, slip your bare feet into the shells, scoot forward until your toes are just brushing the front of the boots, then measure the gap behind your heels.

< 1cm = race fit... probably too small for you at this stage unless the rest of the boot is perfect... which you have no way to determine

1.0-1.5cm = performance fit... a good goal at this stage. A decent shop should be able to punch out any pressure zones, if needed

> 1.5cm = comfort fit... which is what you already have. Send them back.

Good luck!
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby nickia » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:35 am

@Obrules15 Thanks. I'm not a big fan of the entire experience related to flying even though I have access to most airport lounges. The waiting, getting to airport early, checking in luggage, boarding, security, customs, picking up luggage, going to hotel, and etc. Having said that, if I had access to private jet and could skip all of the above, I'd probably enjoy flying. :lol:

@DougD,

Thanks. I will do a shell fit once I get both pairs. Hopefully, one of them will give me a 1cm space. :D
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby nickia » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:46 am

After all your raving about how good HSS alignment is, I'm seriously considering going to HSS for a week and get few private lessons. I e-mailed HSS and will figure out if they have any openings this month. :D
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby Obrules15 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:16 am

BEST EVER!!!!!
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby chris719 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:23 pm

You won't regret it. They'll put you in the right boot and you won't have to waste ski days experimenting.
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Re: Buy new boots now or wait until next year?

Postby l2ski » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:53 pm

nickia wrote:After all your raving about how good HSS alignment is, I'm seriously considering going to HSS for a week and get few private lessons. I e-mailed HSS and will figure out if they have any openings this month. :D


I did exactly that. I flew out to Colorado just to have my alignment done
in Nov 2014 and for 1 day of skiing.

They get booked very fast for camps and privates. I missed the registration for the camps
this season because I waited one day just after they announced the schedule.
I immediately inquired about privates but they were also booked.
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