MA for mountainbum

MA for mountainbum

Postby mountainbum » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:35 pm

Hi everyone. This is my first post so go easy on me :D I picked up skiing 4 years ago, but this is my third full year of skiing. I took one lesson after I had been skiing for over a year. It was a little confusing, but I think it did help. This past year I have been working pretty much full time as a ski instructor and skiing as much as I can, and I recently got my PSIA 1. I have done a lot of reading and watched a lot of youtube videos because I"m always trying to improve. I actually took about 10 or 12 PSIA clinics this year, and that's what got me started looking for something different. I really did learn a lot of useful things, but after my last couple of clinics I came away very confused. I had a shoulder injury recently, but that gave me a lot of time to ponder :mrgreen: I had watched pretty much all of the HH videos on youtube and had skimmed a couple of the books before, but I never really thought it was that different from PSIA. After this year, going back to the books and videos I can finally understand the difference and it is huge! I think that I was using a lot more efficient movements before I took my level one and all of those clinics. Shoot, I hadn't even heard the word rotary until I became an instructor so it wasn't part of my skiing...I think :P Anyway, I just got back from my injury and skied the last two days doing my best to use PMTS movements--flexing, tipping, counter-balance, counter-acting--I have never felt more comfortable or balanced on my skis. I was able to ski very tight tree runs yesterday at Eldora at very high speeds consistently, without struggling or missing a beat, something I can rarely do. Today I went to Loveland and was able to shoot some video--not the best because I can't zoom in or out while videoing, but I think it is possible to do MA on it!

A little self MA: sometimes I think I am still pushing off of my outside ski at initiation

I am definitely guilty of hip dumping--have been working on that this year

I also noticed that I am very poorly aligned, I think I am pretty knock kneed. I can tell when I look at the videos in slow mo. I will have to go get aligned when I have some money :( Anyway, I'm not sure if I'm doing any of the movements right, but I am very eager to learn, so I will keep reading and watching. I am relatively close to Abasin, so if there is anyone in the area who wants to ski a non-vail resort I would love to learn more about PMTS and ski with someone who understands it. I'll appreciate any feedback on the videos!




User avatar
mountainbum
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:57 pm

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby HeluvaSkier » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:41 am

Mountainbum,

You ski surprisingly well for a skier with only 3 seasons of skiing experience. Do you have an athletic background or an age advantage? You’ve given us a lot of background info on your skiing journey. Just a curiosity, but I noticed you did not include that level of detail when you cross posted requesting MA on Epic as well. To be successful training with PMTS, it will require a full rebuild of your skiing. It is not as simple as watching a few YouTube videos and making a few tweaks to your existing skiing. Rather, you will have to work through the progressions from the most basic level as if you were a beginner skier. Mixing and matching coaching advice will not deliver results as you work through that process, so beware that the direction you receive here will not align with the coaching and instruction you are receiving elsewhere and doing both simultaneously will set you up for failure on both fronts.

Many who are on your path [with PSIA] are not interested in dedicating the time and effort into the process of changing their skiing. PSIA as an organization will not reward it, and if your goal is to move up within that organization, a dual focus may be distracting and leave you falling short on both sets of goals. This is not to say that there are not successful PMTS skiers within PSIA (many are HSS camp attendees), but chasing both will present its challenges.

As for an MA of your skiing, your single most important movement is tipping (you don’t have much at all), but before addressing any movement issues, a PMTS coach would insist that you have your alignment properly addressed.
User avatar
HeluvaSkier
 
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:29 pm
Location: Western New York

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby DougD » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:50 am

Hey mb! Welcome to the forum. That was a great first post. A couple of your comments will resonate with many of us:

mountainbum wrote:I actually took about 10 or 12 PSIA clinics this year, and that's what got me started looking for something different. I really did learn a lot of useful things, but after my last couple of clinics I came away very confused.

...I never really thought [PMTS] was that different from PSIA. After this year, going back to the books and videos I can finally understand the difference and it is huge! I think that I was using a lot more efficient movements before I took my level one and all of those clinics.

...I think that I was using a lot more efficient movements before I took my level one and all of those clinics.

...I hadn't even heard the word rotary until I became an instructor...

Some of skied for 30+ years before learning those truths, so great job on being perceptive and keeping an open mind.

With regard to your video, I hope a qualified coach (Max_501? Geoffda? Bolter?) or expert (HeluvaSkier? JBotti?) chimes in. Until they do, here are a few observations, to be taken with a grain of salt since I'm a PMTS novice (2 years of work, 1 week-long camp).

1. For a new, self-taught PMTSer who's fighting to overcome saturation in TTS dogma, this is good skiing! You have a long way to go, but 99% of skiers on the slopes are doing much worse (from PMTS perspective).

2. Get thee to Harb Ski Systems as soon as possible for boot fitting & alignment. You look significantly knock-kneed, and this impacts your balancing and tipping abilities. Most of us who've visited HSS realize that we should have done so years earlier. The difference they can make is huge... more than any ski lesson. DO THIS NOW... or certainly before you spend another dollar on lift tickets, skis or anything else.

3. On most turns, your feet separate and stem slightly during transition. They don't come back together until you're roughly in the fall line. The cure for this is to OWN the Phantom Move (aka, Super-Phantom). The keys to that are:
- get back to easy, groomed slopes and practice at S-L-O-W speeds
- practice, practice, practice balancing on the LTE of the uphill foot while traversing, BEFORE tipping the free foot to begin the next turn... this is critical
- do the drills in ACBAES1&2 that are associated with this
- do this until you've got it incorporated into your skiing (and confirm with video)
That will cure your semi-stem. Unless a coach advises differently, I believe this is your SMIM (Single Most Important Movement)

4. At the end of turns to your R (stance ski = L), you're over-reaching with your left hand/arm for the next pole plant. This unwinds your CA. (Trust me. I have the same problem!) The Angry Mother and No Swing Pole Plant drills will help, but don't worry much about this until you've addressed your SMIM.

Again, you're already doing well. It's rare for a 4 year skier to show such good base angles. Keep working and enjoy the journey!
DougD
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:22 am
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby mountainbum » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:29 pm

HeluvaSkier: Thanks for the input! In response to some of your questions, yes I definitely have an age advantage, I will be 21 this year. I didn't give as much detail on epic because I have seen the difference in skiing and don't place much value on being confused--I was just curious about the other perspective :wink: I definitely understand the points you made about a full rebuild of my skiing and how listening to two different schools of thought might cause confusion. I originally joined PSIA to improve my teaching but also my skiing, and since neither of those things have happened after spending copious amounts of money, I think I will be taking a different path. Definitely agree on the lack of tipping in my skiing--that's one word I never heard when I took clinics! By the way, the first time I saw your skiing videos on epic I was blown away because of the contrast between them and everything else. Realizing that level of skiing was due to PMTS definitely prodded me to look into this more.

DougD: I will just respond to the numbers,

1. That is encouraging :D

2. I'm guessing the place in Dumont is the closest to me...do you have any idea of average pricing for alignment? or know where I can find that info? perhaps HSS?

3. I agree that I have a lot of work to do in this area. Out of all of the movements this is the most foreign to me, and it seems, one of the most important.

4. I thought that might have been the case...it felt like too much effort.
User avatar
mountainbum
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:57 pm

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby jbotti » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:44 am

A simple plan is always better than a more complex one. Work on your tipping. The books have great tipping drills. When you are consistently tipping to appropriate levels then worry about the other essentials. As well, work on this on moderate pitch on groomed terrain where you give yourself the best chance of doing the movements correctly and perfectly. Skiing more difficult terrain may be fun but it will bring out incorrect movements in your skiing.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
User avatar
jbotti
 
Posts: 1733
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:05 am

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby mountainbum » Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:57 pm

jbotti: Thanks, tipping seems to be the consensus and that's what I'll be working on--on moderate terrain of course. I will try to resist the temptation to ski steeper terrain, but it will be difficult!
User avatar
mountainbum
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:57 pm

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby h.harb » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:26 am

Your battle is just beginning. Your movements are all rotational, legs, hips. There is no sign of balance development. SO you are on the wrong path. Look at the last post on my blog. The answer lies in there and in PMTS movements. If you continue with PSIA you will dead end all your efforts and like you said, copious amounts of money to confuse your skiing. You are early in the process, you can turn it around, this advice is not negative, it's honest.

There are dozens of posts on this forum that advise people where to start and how to get into PMTS. First, you have to understand building balance through RTE. Flexing and tipping go together they can not be separated. Read book 1 first, then the Essentials. Book 2 can be studied later.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6618
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby mountainbum » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:54 am

h.harb: Thanks very much for your honest advice. I completely agree. Just to be clear, after all that I have seen this year and "learned", I have no intention of continuing with PSIA in the future. I do however want to be the best skier I can be. I actually wasn't completely convinced that PMTS movements were the way to go until I saw this answer to my cross post on epic this morning. It pretty much confirms everything that I had heard about PSIA that I hoped wasn't true.

Quote: You have been told to work on your tipping. That is not something I would focus on in your case. Tipping would increase your edge angles. Why? Tipping is good for skiers that either carve edge locked or have the ability to turn parallel without a stem and need higher edge angles for better performance or to be quick in short turns. I would definitely work on pressure control and unweighting to initiate turns because now you are very static and don't move up and down with your upper body at all and lack leg flexing and extension.

So apparently I should bounce my upper body up and down to initiate turns? that doesn't sounds like any high level skiing I've ever seen...

Quote: In the second video it is obvious. You are prolonging your skidding at the end of the turn until you start a new turn. This is because you need momentum for your next turn. So you are washing out at the end of the turn waiting for an edge set. What you should do is turn more even with a smaller brush and at the end just continue in a traverse across the hill. Then you up-unweight the next turn initiation by a small extension so that you can offset the tails for your new turn.

Wha??....and this next one is the most ridiculous of all,

Quote: I don't know about the alignment. To me it looks like your skis are not the most suitable for technical skiing. Lots of float but little edge performance.

Pardon me...those skis are Salomon Xdrive 8.0. 80mm. With a 15m radius. Tuned to 1 and 3. I'm skiing powder. And my alignment is clearly off, I can see that and I know nothing about alignment.

Well I know where I don't want to be. Looks like I have some thorough reading to do :D
User avatar
mountainbum
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:57 pm

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby ToddW » Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:18 pm

Not to detract from the tipping focus, but Harald mentions at the beginning of Expert Skier 2 two things that will instantly improve your skiing (because they stimulate you to balance.) They are 1) narrow your stance. Aim for a couple finger widths of air between the boots. 2) ski on one foot keeping the tail or entirety of the other ski lifted to get a free foot. Now add free foot tipping.
.
ToddW
 
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: live: Westchester (NY) / ski: Killington

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby Max_501 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:34 am

mountainbum wrote: And my alignment is clearly off, I can see that and I know nothing about alignment.

Well I know where I don't want to be. Looks like I have some thorough reading to do :D


Here's a blog post with info on alignment.

http://harbskisysems.blogspot.com/2015/ ... -isnt.html
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 3885
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:41 am

mountainbum wrote:HeluvaSkier: Thanks for the input! In response to some of your questions, yes I definitely have an age advantage, I will be 21 this year. I didn't give as much detail on epic because I have seen the difference in skiing and don't place much value on being confused--I was just curious about the other perspective :wink: I definitely understand the points you made about a full rebuild of my skiing and how listening to two different schools of thought might cause confusion. I originally joined PSIA to improve my teaching but also my skiing, and since neither of those things have happened after spending copious amounts of money, I think I will be taking a different path. Definitely agree on the lack of tipping in my skiing--that's one word I never heard when I took clinics! By the way, the first time I saw your skiing videos on epic I was blown away because of the contrast between them and everything else. Realizing that level of skiing was due to PMTS definitely prodded me to look into this more.


Mountainbum, thanks for the comments on my skiing. I’m glad to hear it is an inspiration to other skiers. If your goal is to improve both your skiing and your teaching, you have one of the best resources at HSS right in your own back yard. Get to HSS to talk about the PMTS accreditation process. It is the BEST thing you could ever do for your skiing and teaching. If you’re looking to make a career out of teaching skiing in that area, there is no better path to take.

FWIW, I was very close to your age when I discovered PMTS. I’d advise you to use your youth as an advantage and learn proper skiing sooner rather than later as the old you get, the more difficult it will be to change. You will be amazed what PMTS can do for your skiing if you do it right. With proper focus, you could be an expert level PMTS skier before you are 30.
User avatar
HeluvaSkier
 
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:29 pm
Location: Western New York

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby hyper_squirrel7 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:58 pm

HeluvaSkier wrote:
mountainbum wrote:HeluvaSkier: Thanks for the input! In response to some of your questions, yes I definitely have an age advantage, I will be 21 this year. I didn't give as much detail on epic because I have seen the difference in skiing and don't place much value on being confused--I was just curious about the other perspective :wink: I definitely understand the points you made about a full rebuild of my skiing and how listening to two different schools of thought might cause confusion. I originally joined PSIA to improve my teaching but also my skiing, and since neither of those things have happened after spending copious amounts of money, I think I will be taking a different path. Definitely agree on the lack of tipping in my skiing--that's one word I never heard when I took clinics! By the way, the first time I saw your skiing videos on epic I was blown away because of the contrast between them and everything else. Realizing that level of skiing was due to PMTS definitely prodded me to look into this more.


Mountainbum, thanks for the comments on my skiing. I’m glad to hear it is an inspiration to other skiers. If your goal is to improve both your skiing and your teaching, you have one of the best resources at HSS right in your own back yard. Get to HSS to talk about the PMTS accreditation process. It is the BEST thing you could ever do for your skiing and teaching. If you’re looking to make a career out of teaching skiing in that area, there is no better path to take.

FWIW, I was very close to your age when I discovered PMTS. I’d advise you to use your youth as an advantage and learn proper skiing sooner rather than later as the old you get, the more difficult it will be to change. You will be amazed what PMTS can do for your skiing if you do it right. With proper focus, you could be an expert level PMTS skier before you are 30.


Wouldn't having a teaching career be harder since most ski areas run on the mainstream system?
hyper_squirrel7
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:36 pm

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby DougD » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:00 am

hyper_squirrel7 wrote:Wouldn't having a teaching career be harder since most ski areas run on the mainstream system?

It depends on what sort of career you want. If you're motivated by the imagined security of a large corporate employer, PMTS may not be the best choice. Then again, ski teaching may not be the best choice.

If you're motivated by real learning and the ability to offer your students real and lasting improvements, PMTS is an ideal choice.

The PSIA level 3's I've taken clinics from must go home frustrated by the fact that their students never seem to get any better. Their return rate is abysmal.

OTOH, the PMTS coaches I know have more demand for their services than they can handle. Its a different kind of job security, but perhaps a more satisfying one, at least for some.
DougD
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:22 am
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby h.harb » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:15 am

We are always looking for coaches, that we can develop for our camps. Of the pool of coaches we have in Harb Ski systems, about 3/4 were profession ski teachers at some level before joining us. Five of our coaches have developed out of our campers. They evolved into coaches through our training and accreditation.

Mountainbum in the second video: Notice that your back has some Lordosis, also known as swayback. This is a condition in which the spine in the lower back has an excessive curvature. The spine naturally curves at the neck, upper back, and lower back to help absorb shock and support the weight of the head. Lordosis occurs when the natural arch in the lower back, or lumbar region, curves more than normal. This can lead to excess pressure on the spine, causing pain.

I suggest you try two things to reduce this position, heel lift and or toe lift. We have skis with these lifts built into the binding. We often send skiers out on both pair to test their fore/aft balance and to evaluate which type of lift is best suited. Everyone is different. You may be able to reduce your lordosis with experimentation. Also the ramp inside the boot can have an effect on lower back position. At your age you probably don't feel any back issues, but further down the road it may appear. Something to consider.

As far as lateral alignment, partly it your movements and partly it's your boots. Some frames in the 2nd video show "A frame" at teh ned of your turn and in your transition. If you can have your video coming straight at the camera for better alignment viewing and evaluation.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6618
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: MA for mountainbum

Postby mountainbum » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:59 am

h.harb: I'm surprised you noticed my swayback just from the video! I've had that problem for a long time, and only one person, an examiner, ever noticed it. The suggestions about ramp angle seem worth trying out. In response to the lateral alignment, I have a couple more videos that I took--although they weren't as good, they clearly showed an Aframe at the start of every turn. If you like, I could post them if that would be helpful.
User avatar
mountainbum
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:57 pm

Next

Return to Movement Analysis and Video

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest