Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

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Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby apache67 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:46 pm

Hello Folks,

I have been lurking for sometime now and am now coming out of my shell to get some boot recommendations for challenging feet.

I have very wide feet (106mm), narrow heels, high instep-high arches (good for swimming :D ).

Can I get some brand recommendations for feet like this in a lateral action boot?

I am 73" tall and weigh 181 pounds. My current boot is a size 27.5 (Tecnica 10.2)

Thanks Much!
G
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby Louis » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:47 pm

Those are very wide feet! I don't know any high performance boots with a last that wide...
But I guess you could get a Lange 130 wide with a last of 100 and get it punched at the sides. To fit in your high arch the bootboard could be grinded.
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby apache67 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:57 pm

Louis wrote:Those are very wide feet! I don't know any high performance boots with a last that wide...
But I guess you could get a Lange 130 wide with a last of 100 and get it punched at the sides. To fit in your high arch the bootboard could be grinded.


They are wide! In the cycling and running world I have Lake and Altra shoes to get me through. With my skiing world, there are far less choices with respect to high insteps and wide toe boxes when it comes to ski boots. Now the Tecnicas have the instep and toe box issues covered. However, I feel like I need to be more upright and the Tecnicas put me too far forward.

I've done some reading and found this:
http://www.southernski.com/toe-jam-spre ... tcher.html

Can anybody vouch for this technique with respect to getting the upper cuff more upright? I mentioned this to my local fitter here in Jersey (not a PMTS fitter) and he did not know of this method.

When it comes to the Langes (RS or RX) what are the limits to punching out the toe boxes to accommodate 110 millimeter widths? What are the limits to stretching (or grinding, etc.) plastic to get room for tall insteps?

Louis, thanks for your reply!!
G
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby Louis » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:53 am

Don't buy the Technica, they are no good.
You can punch a boot up to 1 cm I think. The thing is the Langes have a last of 100 in size 26 I guess, so in size 27 it would be a last of 102.
For changing the instep one can reposition the buckles, don't know how much is possible, but as I said, the bootboard can be grinded,too
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby apache67 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:37 am

Louis, the boot is already in my possession (Tecnica). So, for the time being it's what I have to work with. My choices for boots are very limited (form + function). Thanks for the input!

Cheers,
G
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby jbotti » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:34 pm

G, I have a good friend who has the same width foot as you. He raced from young into his twenties so he is pretty used to pain and boots that don't fit. He has pretty much tried everything to see what he can get to work for his foot. He recently did a Fischer Vacuum 150 but when you stretch the liner that wide you end up losing height and that was a bit of problem. He finally got it OK but he no longer skies that boot. He currently skis a Lange RS 130 in the 100mm width that he has done a ton of work on. He is still always in some discomfort. I would recommend that you start with a wide lasted boot (many are as wide as 103mm which would be fine for you because grinding or punching 3-4mm is easy to do) that is also a higher flex number (130 or 120). Most of the boot manufacturers make a wide stiff version that is in a traditional 2 piece, 4 buckle boot. With a boot like this you have a good chance of getting a boot that you ski all day without pain.
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby apache67 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:58 am

jbotti wrote:G, I have a good friend who has the same width foot as you. He raced from young into his twenties so he is pretty used to pain and boots that don't fit. He has pretty much tried everything to see what he can get to work for his foot. He recently did a Fischer Vacuum 150 but when you stretch the liner that wide you end up losing height and that was a bit of problem. He finally got it OK but he no longer skies that boot. He currently skis a Lange RS 130 in the 100mm width that he has done a ton of work on. He is still always in some discomfort. I would recommend that you start with a wide lasted boot (many are as wide as 103mm which would be fine for you because grinding or punching 3-4mm is easy to do) that is also a higher flex number (130 or 120). Most of the boot manufacturers make a wide stiff version that is in a traditional 2 piece, 4 buckle boot. With a boot like this you have a good chance of getting a boot that you ski all day without pain.


Thanks for the input Jbotti,

So, I did a trial fit yesterday with a Lange RX130 (size 27.5). The shell check fit (sans liner) seemed fine to me and the fitter, but when we did the fit assessment with the liner installed it seemed extremely cramped. Do Lange liners run small? For curiosity sake, we tried the boots in size 28.5 and they were "cavernous" in that size. Also, it seems my instep height is not as heigh as I presumed (about 25.5cm measured circumferential).

I am still curious about boot last punch-out limits. What is considered the limit for last punch-out in terms of width? Are there other means for increasing toebox volume in a ski boot?

Thanks for your patience! There's a lot to know and I am a curious student! :P
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby apache67 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:36 am

jbotti wrote:G, I have a good friend who has the same width foot as you. He raced from young into his twenties so he is pretty used to pain and boots that don't fit. He has pretty much tried everything to see what he can get to work for his foot. He recently did a Fischer Vacuum 150 but when you stretch the liner that wide you end up losing height and that was a bit of problem. He finally got it OK but he no longer skies that boot. He currently skis a Lange RS 130 in the 100mm width that he has done a ton of work on. He is still always in some discomfort. I would recommend that you start with a wide lasted boot (many are as wide as 103mm which would be fine for you because grinding or punching 3-4mm is easy to do) that is also a higher flex number (130 or 120). Most of the boot manufacturers make a wide stiff version that is in a traditional 2 piece, 4 buckle boot. With a boot like this you have a good chance of getting a boot that you ski all day without pain.


Hello Again,

It seems that getting a wide or wider boot and a more upright cuff is easier said than done! :(
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby jbotti » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:15 am

Those Lange non race liners have way too much padding in them. I have friend who got the boot and after 10 days of pain with the Lange liner he replaced it with a Nordica race liner which has been prefect.
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby DougD » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:40 pm

jbotti wrote:Those Lange non race liners have way too much padding in them. I have friend who got the boot and after 10 days of pain with the Lange liner he replaced it with a Nordica race liner which has been prefect.

+1

I have normal width feet (~95-96mm x 25.5 mondopoint). The stock Lange liners in my 100mm RX130s were very cushy. That fit me okay, but if I had a wide foot a thinner liner would be just the ticket. There's plenty of room in the shell to take advantage of that if you need to.
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby apache67 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:04 pm

DougD wrote:
jbotti wrote:Those Lange non race liners have way too much padding in them. I have friend who got the boot and after 10 days of pain with the Lange liner he replaced it with a Nordica race liner which has been prefect.

+1

I have normal width feet (~95-96mm x 25.5 mondopoint). The stock Lange liners in my 100mm RX130s were very cushy. That fit me okay, but if I had a wide foot a thinner liner would be just the ticket. There's plenty of room in the shell to take advantage of that if you need to.


Thanks!
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Re: Boot Odyssey: Need Recommendations

Postby theorist » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:57 pm

Hi apache. Of course, your best bet would be to find a PMTS fitter. But, barring that, since I also have too much fwd lean and a high instep (though I suspect my instep:width ratio is higher than yours; my instep is definitely high, and my feet are merely E and D) -- and since I've been seen by PMTS fitters for two different boots -- perhaps recounting my experience will help you. Note that I am not an official source of PMTS info., and that what works for me may not necessarily apply to you, etc. etc.

I. FIT. People with high insteps are a minority of the population, and the usual shell-fitting rules don't apply. Specifically, I fit the shell by the circumference, not the length. And the PMTS fitters have agreed with my approach, for me. Currently, with a thin, broken-in Rossi Z-series lace-up race liner and a Conformable foam tongue, I have essentially no extra room in my Scorpion SR130's (with one key exception). Indeed, I don't even fasten the instep buckle, and the toe buckle only v. lightly. So by any reasonable definition, I have a performance fit. Yet a shell fit (and this is the exception) shows I have 25 mm of length in front of my toes. The bottom line is this: If you have both a high instep and a wide foot, you may have about the same instep:width ratio as someone with a lower instep and narrower foot. I.e., a low-instep race boot might have just the right shape for your foot, and if you size up sufficiently it might also be the right size (by which I mean size up until you have close but not painful contact all the way around, except for isolated pressure points, which can be stretched or ground). Given this, what you should do is try every race boot you can get your hands on and see if any match the shape of your foot, and don't be afraid to size up to make it work. Another tip is to find yourself a thin, comfortable (sufficiently stretched-out to accommodate your foot) liner, and use it, instead of the stock liners, to try on all the boots (sometimes shops will have slightly-used race liners that they can sell cheap, from when a racer decides to upgrade to a custom liner). That way you will know you are comparing the shells themselves, rather than the differences between stock liners. Also, since you have a wider foot relative to instep than I do, you may need a lower instep boot to match your foot. The only way to tell is to try.

Of course, I might be able to find a boot that, with a 10-15 mm shell fit (i.e., in a 23 rather than a 24) is high enough in volume to accommodate my foot. But that would have to be a very high-volume boot, which means it most likely would be a recreational boot with nowhere near the performance of my Scorpion (and, in particular, far too soft), which would have been unacceptable to me. That's why I chose this approach instead -- I need to be in a race boot. [One caveat: when sizing up, you need to be sure the boot isn't too tall for you -- you might need a short-cuff version, or to confine yourself to boots with lower cuffs.]

II. FWD LEAN. Standing up the cuffs is risky. Harald has mentioned doing it on his B2's:
h.harb wrote:Highangles, on this topic, I just straightened my Raptor B2, 150s, again today, because they felt too far forward for me.
....yet, without having an expert do it, you risk changing the fit of the boot in a way that might not work for you. Further, once it's done, it may not be reversible. Again, you should talk to a PMTS fitter. But, barring that, here are two much less radical modifications that might make you more comfortable: (1) Check your binding delta. If it's high, try a pair of skis with a much lower delta and see if that improves things enough. [It takes a lot of change in binding delta to change fwd lean -- 5 mm per degree -- so you likely won't be able to get the cuffs as straight as you'd like, but it might be enough to help.] If yes, consider raising the toes on the bindings on your own skis and see if you like it. If yes, and you have multiple pairs of skis, consider having your boots gas-pedaled. Note also that this will reduce your bootboard zeppa. (2) Get some of those spoiler shims and flip them around to the front (putting them between the shell and the liner). This will reduce fwd lean, though at the expense of moving your heel out of the pocket (this clever kludge was suggested to me by a PMTS fitter). It's not ideal, but it might help.
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