Ski Question

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Ski Question

Postby akiman911 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:21 pm

I am a high level intermediate skiier looking to start out on PMTS

I am about 155 Lbs 5'9. I have a pair of DYnastar Omeglass TI SL skiis, 165-

Should I opt for a different pair to emphassize tipping and bending of the ski?

These are on the firmer side, and I find myself in the backseat on the second half of the day
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Re: Ski Question

Postby DougD » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:19 am

akiman911,

Welcome to PMTS. You won't find a better method of skiing improvement anywhere. If that's your goal, you've come to the right place!

Core requirements for an effective PMTS learning ski :
1. quick to tip (ie, narrow underfoot, ~70mm or less);
2. easily flexed into an arc by you at very slow speeds on an easy slope; and
3. carves round, fairly short radius turns when you do 1 & 2.

SL skis satisfy #1 but they're typically too stiff to allow less skilled skiers to do #2, which means they can't do #3. The fact that yours are throwing you into the back seat suggests that, by PMTS standards, you're still a "less skilled skier" (sorry). HH and other high level PMTS skiers can bend a SL ski into a deep arc and carve round, short radius turns all day long at 5mph on an easy green. If you can't, the answer to your question is, "Yes".

The skis on the HSS website are chosen specifically to support PMTS movements. Read the descriptions. From your self-description and the fact that you have some experience on a SL ski, I'd expect the Head I.Supershape Speed would be very suitable. Its performance won't disappoint but it's much easier to flex than a SL, which enables PMTS drills at slow speeds. It's a great, fun ski (just got a pair myself after demoing with PMTS coaches.) At your weight you could go for a 163 for shorter turns or a 170 for more medium turns.

P. S. Once you develop PMTS skills you'll be able to ski those SL skis without getting tossed into the back seat. At present, it sounds like their stiffness is impairing the development of effective skiing movements.
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Re: Ski Question

Postby jbotti » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:30 am

I don't know the ski you are on but if it is a race stock slalom ski it's definitely not what you want as an intermediate skier and a beginner with PMTS. If you search the gear forum you will find a lot of commentary on appropriate skis for learning PMTS. What Doug has laid out is good. Most here are still lamenting the discontinuation of the two go to PMTS skis, The Head Super Shape and the Head TT 80. Your list of potential PMTS skis would include the two I just mentioned (if you can find them which will be difficult and most likely only used) and:

Head SS Speed (actually called the i.Supershape Speed)
Head ISL non RD (called WC Rebels ISL Sandwich)
Elan SL (slx is probably stiffer than you want or need)

None are all that easy to find but the latter three are available and can be bought new.
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Re: Ski Question

Postby JMD » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:43 am

Hello akiman911, welcome to the PMTS forums. I believe the Dynastar Omeglass Ti Sl skis you own are the consumer (non-Fis) model. HH really liked next years model at the SIA demo. They are very simular to the Rossignol 9s Sl and newer Hero St Ti models. Also simular to the Head i.Sl jbotti recommends. #1 That said the skis maybe slightly too stiff for your learning process. #2 Another challenge maybe your technique as you learn the new PMTS movements. #3 Your boot alinement maybe off and shows up more as you get fatigued later in the day. Enjoy your journey with PMTS.
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Re: Ski Question

Postby akiman911 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:19 am

I was perhaps too modest when I say high level intermediate, I control them well, with up movements for sure. Looking for more efficient movement and stumbled across PMTS. Unfortunately only have about 5 ski days a year so improvements will have to be done primarily on dryland, for now especially.

im quite sure its the softer non-race version, but overall quite stiff- I should say that in the first few hours of the day I am in good fore/aft position, but the skis are definitely on the more demanding side. Partly due to many inefficient movements surely.

Is the head ss lineup significantly softer?
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Re: Ski Question

Postby DougD » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:30 am

If someone offers a comparison, great, but you really don't need it to make this decision. I gave you the PMTS yardstick for ski flex, which is based on what YOU can do on the skis, not on what someone else can do...

To advance most efficiently in PMTS, you should be able to bend the outside ski into a clean, round arc while skiing at very slow speed (< 5mph) on an flat, groomed green slope (aka, the bunny hill).

Can you do this on your present skis?
    * if you can, your present skis' flex should be fine for PMTS learning.
    * if you can't, any ski on the HSS website would be more suitable; they were all selected to let normal sized adult skiers do this.
You could certainly bend the i.SS Speed in those conditions. I weigh 25lb less and do it easily. Hope this helps.
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Re: Ski Question

Postby sgarrozzo » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:27 am

Maybe the last one in the world:


http://www.ebay.it/itm/SCI-SKI-HEAD-SUPERSHAPE-SUPERSHAPE-165-CM-NUOVI-/220966478736?pt=Sci&hash=item3372a0e390


I don't know if asking they make international shipping. :D
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Re: Ski Question

Postby DougD » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:06 pm

sgarrozzo wrote:Maybe the last one in the world:


http://www.ebay.it/itm/SCI-SKI-HEAD-SUPERSHAPE-SUPERSHAPE-165-CM-NUOVI-/220966478736?pt=Sci&hash=item3372a0e390


I don't know if asking they make international shipping. :D

Great find. I'd jump on those if I hadn't just bought a pair of 2016 i.SS Speeds. As jbotti noted, many PMTS veterans say this was an even better ski for PMTS learning.

One caution: some European shops sell current Head skis with bindings that have a high (8mm) toe:heel delta. That doesn't work well for many skiers, including me. I had to replace my bindings with a different Head model that has a lower (4mm) delta, which works much better (for me).
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Re: Ski Question

Postby jbotti » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:42 pm

Those are great skis and very hard to find.

Doug, I am not sure that Aksel Svindal can bend a ski at 5 MPH. I think you must have misunderstood what you either read or heard.

Most new to PMTS skiers can't bend a ski at any speed so it can't be the prerequisite for a good PMTS ski for learning and advancing.

Akiman911, if you get those Head SS's you will be on an excellent ski that will also take you far with PMTS as your skiing progresses.
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Re: Ski Question

Postby kirtland » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:16 pm

I am wondering if anyone has demoed the '14-'15 Head iSL RD and what their experience was? Since they seem to have been ignored on the forum.

I ask because I was on a quest to Demo some of the other skis referred to on the forum the last two years, that were suitable for short turns and hard snow, looking in Bend, OR, Reno, NV and Salt Lake City all to no avail. With encouragement from Jackson Hogan and with some trepidation, I bought a pair of Head iSL RD 165cm 13.1R and had them shipped to me. I was pleasantly surprised to find they are quite docile for an FIS ski. That may partially, explain why no FIS World Cup Races have been won on them. I found them to be just like RealSkiers.com review described them to be. They are specified to have a longer turning radius than any of the other FIS Slalom skis, I have looked at, and approximately the same as Head iSuperShape Speed 163cm 13.2R. I found them to arc silkie smooth, easy, forgiving, good in bumps, not to have too much energy for me to handle, if I load up the tail, handle 4-6" of wet, heavy, broken up snow with no problem and handle more speed than I would expect them too.
I have no idea how they compare to the other skis, having never located any of them to Demo. But I no longer feel compelled to look.

I found out after I bought them, that SportsLoft in Salt Lake City has them to Demo, if any one who skis Utah is interested.
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Re: Ski Question

Postby Max_501 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:58 pm

kirtland wrote:I am wondering if anyone has demoed the '14-'15 Head iSL RD and what their experience was? Since they seem to have been ignored on the forum.


We don't mention them because they have been too stiff for anything but racing and unless they softened the 14-15 RD to the point of having the same flex as the iSL (non RD) I would expect that to still be the case.
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Re: Ski Question

Postby akiman911 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:34 am

Ah nice, I drive by GP a fair bit as Im right beside at Alpine ( most of the time anyway)

how are their slopes for learning PMTS? Im under the impression everything is steeper than 30 degrees at your club
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Re: Ski Question

Postby DougD » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:13 am

jbotti wrote:Doug, I am not sure that Aksel Svindal can bend a ski at 5 MPH. I think you must have misunderstood what you either read or heard.

Well, we know that HH, other PMTS coaches and probably you can do PMTS drills at 5mph on a race ski. But after reviewing a few HH videos I appreciate that this is different than "bending" a ski at that speed. I stand corrected.

jbotti wrote:Most new to PMTS skiers can't bend a ski at any speed so it can't be the prerequisite for a good PMTS ski for learning and advancing.

Good point. Lito Tejada-Flores adherents also bend the ski, since one-footed turns on an arcing ski were the basis of his method. But what you say is generally true. Again, I stand corrected.

I was arguing from results (skis known to be good for PMTS newcomers) backwards to causes, hoping to identify a generic rule or test. Time to re-boot my thinking. Thanks!
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Re: Ski Question

Postby kirtland » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:34 pm

Max_501 wrote: We don't mention them because they have been too stiff for anything but racing and unless they softened the 14-15 RD to the point of having the same flex as the iSL (non RD) I would expect that to still be the case.


I shared your preconceived notion, hence my trepidation. Jackson Hogan assured me the 14-15 ski was not the typical FIS race stock ski. Happily I found him to be correct.
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Re: Ski Question

Postby Max_501 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:10 pm

kirtland wrote:I shared your preconceived notion, hence my trepidation. Jackson Hogan assured me the 14-15 ski was not the typical FIS race stock ski. Happily I found him to be correct.


I find it hard to believe that the RD is not stiffer than the iSL. Did you confirm your feelings of performance with video?
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