Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

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Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby Robert0325 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:04 am

I'm hoping someone can help me. I'm trying to decide a new set of ski's. I can't afford 2 pairs so need something for all mountain.
I've skied for many years and am now 50, for the last 3 years I've dedicated myself to skiing the PMTS way, although have to admit I'm self taught using Harald's books, dvd's and youtube videos. I ski mainly in the Alps and mainly on piste but do like to go off piste when I get the chance, if I'm lucky this is in powder but more often than not crud, chopped up snow or slush. I've been skiing the last couple of seasons on Supershape Titan's 177cm (not Harald's favourite ski!) the idea being that they give a little more width underfoot for when off-piste. I would say though that I ski on groomed slopes about 70% of the time.
The decision is then weather to stick with a mid-fat ski like the Rev 80, or weather it's better to go back to a narrower ski like the supershape i.speed or would I have real problems with this in a few inches of off-piste snow (powder, crud, chop etc).
I'm also not sure on length. I'm 6'3", about 200lbs. I ski the supershape Titan as a 177
Any advise much appreciated.
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby Erik » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:45 am

Robert-

PMTS movements are much harder to learn and master on skis that are wider than 72mm underfoot. If you have been practicing PMTS on wider skis, you are holding back your progress by learning and reinforcing your movements on a ski 80mm underfoot. There are many posts on the forum referring to that. I love my Peak 78s (pre Flow-RIde) but my old Supershapes are always the skis I use when doing PMTS drills.

Do you have access to the Supershape iSpeed to demo? You may want to try that first before you just trade out skis that are about 80mm wide. While you have been trying to incorporate PMTS into your movements, have you tried other narrower skis?

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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby Robert0325 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:06 pm

Erik
Thanks for the advice it's much appreciated. I've not really skied anything narrow since converting to PMTS. I did ski some Atomic Race LT's 184 length earlier this season, but even they are 75mm under the foot. Didn't get on that well with them, seemed to not turn that quickly when put on their edges, but then they have a 17m turn radius I think!
Difficult to demo anything unfortunately, might just have to take a chance.
If I did go for the supershape speed, what length would you advice, I'm thinking of going for the 184cm given that they have early rise tips and a bit of rocker?
Thanks
Robert
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby Skizoo » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:32 pm

Robert0325 wrote:Erik
Thanks for the advice it's much appreciated. I've not really skied anything narrow since converting to PMTS. I did ski some Atomic Race LT's 184 length earlier this season, but even they are 75mm under the foot. Didn't get on that well with them, seemed to not turn that quickly when put on their edges, but then they have a 17m turn radius I think!
Difficult to demo anything unfortunately, might just have to take a chance.
If I did go for the supershape speed, what length would you advice, I'm thinking of going for the 184cm given that they have early rise tips and a bit of rocker?
Thanks
Robert


Robert, I think it's a no brainer as to which ski is best for you. Based on everything you said.. you ski mostly groomers, and when you do go off piste you said a 'few' inches of snow.. and you're trying to improve as a PMTS skier, the I.Speed or something similar will be a FAR better choice. It's even more important if you're in the earlier stages of PMTS development. I've seen some really good PMTS skiers ripping 66MM Supershapes in much deeper snow. A few inches should pose no problem for those skis. As for size, I wouldn't go longer than 177 with the SS. The Rev would be a fine second ski but I'd go with the SS if I only had one choice.
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby Robert0325 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:34 am

Thanks for the good advice I've been getting on this, really helpful.
I'm now convinced that I need to go for the Supershape i.speed, or something similar.
Regarding length, Skizoo has recommended that I don't go for anything longer than a 177cm, but I would like to question that. Based on my height 6' 2" and my weight 210 lbs shouldn't I consider 184cm especially as it has a bit or rocker on the tip that effectively reduces the length a little anyway?

For reference I currently ski Head Supershape i.Titans at 177cm and sometimes Rossignol Bandit B2's at 182cm, neither of which 'feel' too long to me.
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby Skizoo » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:00 am

Robert0325 wrote:Thanks for the good advice I've been getting on this, really helpful.
I'm now convinced that I need to go for the Supershape i.speed, or something similar.
Regarding length, Skizoo has recommended that I don't go for anything longer than a 177cm, but I would like to question that. Based on my height 6' 2" and my weight 210 lbs shouldn't I consider 184cm especially as it has a bit or rocker on the tip that effectively reduces the length a little anyway?

For reference I currently ski Head Supershape i.Titans at 177cm and sometimes Rossignol Bandit B2's at 182cm, neither of which 'feel' too long to me.


a 184 for a slalom, shorter turning radius ski seems very long to me, even for your size.., the 177 in that ski is a lot of ski, I'm sure there are some here of similar size and weight who can add more to this
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby seskelson » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:47 pm

Robert, may I second the advice of Skizoo. I currently own a REV 80 pro in a 177 cm and also an Icon TT80 in a 170 cm. I am age 60, weight about 188 to 190 lbs. I previously owned the original Supershape in a `177 cm and sold it to get the 170 cm. MUCH happier at that length. . Totally different skiing characteristics. I sold the Supershape for the Icon after a couple of years.

I've also skied various other Supershape models over the years -- primarily the Magnum. If you were going with the REV 80 maybe you would go longer than the 177 . But on the iSpeed - which is a bit higher up the food chain than my TT80 I would not go longer than a 177cm. In fact, if it were me personally I'd be at the 170 cm - but again, that's just me, but that's why I gave you my pertinent personal data..
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby jbotti » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:35 pm

One of the keys for a good PMTS ski for learning is a tight turn radius. The Head SS in the 170 length was at 12.1 on TR. The TT 80 in the same length is 13.5. When you start to get up in the longer lengths (in all skis) the TR goes up. While for cruising the 184 length might be a fun ski for someone your size and weight, the TR is quite a bit wider than ideal for practicing and learning PMTS movements. We want skis that we can arc tight turns on and that we can also bend. Bending a ski has much more to do with technique that it does size and weight. First learn to ski a 170 ski well and be able to bend it and carve tight arcs with it. Then look at a longer TR. I am not too far from your size (6 3" and 185 lbs) and I ski 170 length skis with no issue both on and off piste. I would say for sure don't even consider the 184. You can make a case that for learning and doing drills that the 177 is too long although a little more versatile. It's certainly plenty of ski IMO.
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby Robert0325 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:19 am

ummmm. I need to amend my thinking on ski selection, thinner NOT fatter, shorter NOT longer....
So from all you good peoples advice, It's a Supershape i.speed 177cm longest length MAX, and really should consider dropping even lower to a 170cm.
I'm getting that Turning Radius is all important and should be below 14 and ideally closer to 12 for developing good PMTS skills.

I'm struggling to find supershape i.speeds in the UK though. Does anybody have any other recommendations for good PMTS skis?

Thanks, Robert
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby Basil j » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:52 am

Robert, I am close to your size 6" 198lbs. I am new to PMTS this season, but have been skiing for over 25 years, done some masters racing and consider myself a solid traditioanl PSIA skier. having said that, the big challenge I have experienced this year is not learning new PMTS movement, but unlearning ingrained PSIA movements, like extension, steering wider stance etc. At the suggestion of skiers on this forum I moved down from a 178 Speed course gs ski to a shorter narrow waisted 170cm ski.
I went with an Elan SLX in a 170cm and it was probably the best decision I have made for gear in years. It is much easier to work on PMTS movements with a narrow waisted shorter ski, but a ski that can hold up under my weight. The Elan has become my regualr go to ski for 90% of my skiing in the east and utilizing PMTS movements, I take it off trail and ski it in most conditions without issue. IMO When in doubt I would suggest to go a little shorter and narrowerer if you really want to learn the movements.
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby jbotti » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:29 am

The Elan SLX is a wonderful ski. It is stiffer than both the original Head SS and the Head SS Kers and the TT 80. For this reason it's probably not best for everyone but at 200 lbs that added stiffness is probably OK (it's harder to bend and takes better technique). They make a less stiff version called the SLC. Not the easiest skis to find as they have limited distribution.
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby Max_501 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:00 am

Basil j wrote:IMO When in doubt I would suggest to go a little shorter and narrowerer if you really want to learn the movements.


Bingo! For developing PMTS movements a ski that is short, narrow, and turny is a great combination.
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby Robert0325 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:24 am

Like the suggestions. Elan SLX looks exciting but very hard to get hold of in the UK but I'll keep looking
How about the Head Magnum, this seems to be readily available in the UK?
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby jbotti » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:44 am

I have not skied it in quite some time in the 170 length. My memory was that they were fairly similar to the original SS's but with a slightly wider TR. Having said that, the reason that Harald does not carry or recommend them is because they are too stiff in a bad way that he has seen cause some issues. I think you could do a lot worse the the SS Magnum (SS Titan appears to be that) but there are better PMTS learning skis.
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Re: Head Rev 80 or supershap i.speed

Postby nwhitta » Sat May 03, 2014 9:41 pm

Hi Robert,
As you appear to be based in UK, you should be able to go on to eBay and find some brand new 2013 original iSupershape Kers. There are some German retailers that still have some stock. They will deliver to UK and are now quite cheap as they are a discontinued model. I have just been down that road myself.
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