Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

PMTS Forum

Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Basil j » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:50 pm

Got my first day in yesterday at loon. They had 5 trails, all manmade but we got about 3-4"of fresh during the day, so all in all not a bad first day. A couple of greens & long easy blues, so perfect for 1st day out. So I have studied both cds- EXP 1 & 2 and the EXp2 Book for the last 2 months. I have also been using a slant board and working on the Phantom move, 1 footed balance and counter rotation and counter balancing on ice skates and roller skates all summer. I did not know what to expect when I got on the snow.
I warmed up with some 2 footed releases and my ski buddy who I ski with every year was quite intrigued by my method of warming up. I wanted to establish good upper lower body separation from day 1and really slowly transition and focus on 3 basic areas yesterday: Edge Release with flexion and no/minimal extension-Edge transfer & smooth edging. All with a still upper body and really get a good measure of where I am.
Well my buddy was shocked. He said I looked completely different coming down the hill than last year. I was lifting my inside tail a bit on the steeper turns when starting the turn and then really working on pulling my inside leg back and up against my stance boot and letting the skis do the work. At first it was a bit unnerving trusting the side cut to do the work, but as the day went on I found a level of relaxed, yet solid on snow edging I have never, ever felt before. I was skiing very smoothly and by pulling my inside foot back instead of trying to get my hips forward(which I now know is impossible) I felt a level of balance and fluidity I have rarely felt on skis. I just felt solid and connected to the snow. And lower to the snow than usual, yet I wasn't bent over.
Needless to say I still have a lot of PMTS to learn, but as 45-50 day a year skier, for the last 20 years, I thought I had progressed as far as I was going to, and it boy it was like a light went off yesterday. I know I have a long way to go but the immediate difference in my skiing and my sense of being connected to the snow was quite cool. A couple of more on snow sessions and I will get to some filming.
I am going to really try to stay patient and master the Phantom move without lifting(light is expert :D ), edge releases, transfer , keeping a narrower stance , and good brushed turns. I never realized how 2 footed I skied until yesterday. :roll:
Basil j
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 am

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Max_501 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:25 pm

Basil j wrote:I warmed up with some 2 footed releases and my ski buddy who I ski with every year was quite intrigued by my method of warming up


Based on your prior posts I'm guessing that you are an advanced skier but the TFR is a very advanced PMTS drill. Because you are newer to PMTS you should start with Page 1 of Book 1. Work through it page by page (skip the sections on wedge blocker movements if they don't apply). Don't start on Book 2 until you have book 1 mastered. And get lots of video to confirm you are doing the drills correctly.
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Basil j » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:47 pm

thanks for your comments max.
I have cd 1 & 2 and Book 2. I will work through all the materials in the proper sequence as presented in the videos. I thought that cd 1 was good, but don't know how much more I will get out of the book 1 vs the CD. I feel like I have enough to work on with what I already have. I have studied all of Harald's on line vidéos as well as some of yours and I feel like' I have plenty to work with and plenty of good resources available to answer any questions I may have. the 2 footed release actually felt pretty natural to me as did the 1 footed release. like I said, first day out. I will not make the mistake of jumping ahead. I will go over the materials piece by pice, in the order presented by the videos. the good news, is after my buddy, who is an excellent skier in his own right saw some of the changes in my skiing, he agreed to work on this stuff with me, and he NEVER drills!
Basil j
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 am

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Max_501 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:12 pm

Basil j wrote:the 2 footed release actually felt pretty natural to me as did the 1 footed release.


Then chances are that you did it incorrectly because it won't feel natural until the 3000th try! :D
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Basil j » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:51 am

Max_501 wrote:
Basil j wrote:the 2 footed release actually felt pretty natural to me as did the 1 footed release.


Then chances are that you did it incorrectly because it won't feel natural until the 3000th try! :D

3000? That's a lot of edge releases! I hope i actually get to ski this year. :lol:
Basil j
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 am

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby h.harb » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:36 am

Agreed, we should all get in the skiing part of practicing PMTS skiing. However, video is the only way to be sure you are on the money. You have a huge support group here on the PMTS forum, expert feedback for free, by the best MA people in skiing. You have all the resources with which to change enhance and improve. No where can you get this, in any sport.

Our own sensory feedback (it feels so good) is the worst measure of skiing movements. The challenge is, that if you are feeling right, especially from the beginning, you maybe helping create the two footed release with hip rotation or an up movement ever so subtle. But if it persists it's not subtle at regular highway speeds. The hips and torso are huge "tipping erasers", if the skis are coming to release into the edge change too easily that could be a sign.

Not saying it is, however in my own early season practice, I have to really focus to not create some help from the upper body. Good luck, and post video.

Max501, it takes me 10 tries. Once you know how it's done, it's rehearsal, not learning. Remember there is a difference between those that have practiced and achieved and those that are learning and not yet there, as far as how much and what you need to do to get it right.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6772
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Basil j » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:43 am

Thanks Harald, I will get to video once Cannon opens up and I have some room to work with on the Hill. I was posting more or less to speak on my excitement that just by working on some off snow execrices and movements over the summer, I immediately saw big dividends first day out and I wanted to relay what i was feeling on the hill with some of the new movements. My goal is to become as good a skier as possible, but still keep it fun and pass the knowledge on to my kids. I will work on perfecting every movement I can, but at the end of the day, I ski to have enjoyment with my friends and family.
Knowing myself and how I always become a student of every sport i participate in and really spend time on the technical aspects of movement and execution, i will take my time and go through your materials to the best that I can, in Chronological order as you have presented them.
I have also, At your recommendation, reached out to Tom Beaurbeau at Waterville valley and hope to connect with him over the winter for some PMTS analysis/ feedback and instruction.
All in all, I am very happy I bit the bullet and gave PMTS a look.
Basil j
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 am

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby jbotti » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:50 am

I had a boss many years ago who was quite enlightened. he used to say all he time that the toughest thing to do in life and in business is to stop doing something that has worked reasonably well to do the thing that will truly get you to excellence. He constantly wanted us to look at things we did that actually got results but where we knew that the result was below what we were capable of. Truly an amazing boss.

It is the same thing with PMTS and unfortunately it is tougher on skiers that already have well established skills. And this is the biggest challenge for you Basil and others that can already ski and well. Can you go back and start from scratch and build PMTS movements from the very foundation up. Can you start in book 1 of ACBAES and do all the drills until you have done them perfectly. We can tell you that most can't and/or don't. And there are quite a few on this forum that first started down the path that most take (which is the idea that I will just integrate PMTS into my already solid skiing) that have realized that it didn't really work.

Again the hardest thing in the world is to move away from something that is already working. To truly integrate PMTS movements into one's skiing, this is necessary.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
User avatar
jbotti
 
Posts: 1803
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:05 am

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Basil j » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:18 pm

I can see what you are saying. I have book 2 and both CD'a 1 & 2 and will learn all the movements as they are presented, in the order they are presented along with the available exercises. I am not opposed to unlearning. on the contrary, That is why I am committing this season to learning as much as I can and I hope to eventaually get to a camp.. Being a regular skier and skater , I am very comfortable on the snow, have good balance and am very willing to drill as often as I have to to get the movements down. I am also not opposed to video analysis and have learned that the camera does not lie. What I am not going to do is fall into ther trap of thinking that if I struggle with a movement or a concept that I all of a sudden suck as a skier. No, I will work hard on the movements, video, analyze and only move forward when I feel ready to move to the next movements. I went from a 2 hand backhand to a one hand back 5 years ago and had to basically star over on that side and now it is easily my best shot. I am extremely disciplined when it comes to change.
Just trying to learn some new stuff and improve as a skier and hopefully teach as some point.
Basil j
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 am

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Basil j » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:23 pm

Right off the front page:
PMTS Direct Parallel combines effective teaching with efficient movements to help skiers progress quickly to the point where they are avid and capable participants. The message that skiing is a fun and quickly-learned activity needs to reach the public, and the Association of PMTS Direct Parallel Instructors will promote this message.
Basil j
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 am

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Max_501 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:38 pm

Basil j wrote:PMTS Direct Parallel combines effective teaching with efficient movements to help skiers progress quickly to the point where they are avid and capable participants. The message that skiing is a fun and quickly-learned activity needs to reach the public, and the Association of PMTS Direct Parallel Instructors will promote this message.


All true. But if you are already an advanced TTS skier you will be battling long established movement patterns that are incompatible with PMTS. In some ways it is actually harder for an advanced skier than a noob.
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby jbotti » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:54 pm

Basil j wrote:What I am not going to do is fall into ther trap of thinking that if I struggle with a movement or a concept that I all of a sudden suck as a skier.


Very tough to become a good PMTS skier without thoroughly experiencing that you suck as a skier (more than a few times)! In fact it's one of the most important parts of progressing. We don't post this crap to get on you. We post it because we have seen people saying what you are saying a zillion times before and we are trying to save you some time and effort that can easily be wasted.

But your a big boy so you can do whatever you like.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
User avatar
jbotti
 
Posts: 1803
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:05 am

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Basil j » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:01 pm

jbotti wrote:
Basil j wrote:What I am not going to do is fall into ther trap of thinking that if I struggle with a movement or a concept that I all of a sudden suck as a skier.


Very tough to become a good PMTS skier without thoroughly experiencing that you suck as a skier (more than a few times)! In fact it's one of the most important parts of progressing. We don't post this crap to get on you. We post it because we have seen people saying what you are saying a zillion times before and we are trying to save you some time and effort that can easily be wasted.
I can appreciate that, I am not trying to be argumentative here. I am going to work on the materials as I have stated. I clearly understand the challenge of unlearning and the frustrations that may come with it.I do appreciate everyones comments and perspective. This is clearly a passionate group, and passion for things that I love is something I clearly understand.

But your a big boy so you can do whatever you like.
:D
Basil j
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 am

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby Basil j » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:02 pm

Max_501 wrote:
Basil j wrote:PMTS Direct Parallel combines effective teaching with efficient movements to help skiers progress quickly to the point where they are avid and capable participants. The message that skiing is a fun and quickly-learned activity needs to reach the public, and the Association of PMTS Direct Parallel Instructors will promote this message.


All true. But if you are already an advanced TTS skier you will be battling long established movement patterns that are incompatible with PMTS. In some ways it is actually harder for an advanced skier than a noob.

Ready for the challenge! :D
Basil j
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 am

Re: Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

Postby h.harb » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:47 pm

I ski with a man who is a world wide corporate trainer. He works with the biggest corporations like South West Air, Euro Banks and Brazil's biggest airline. He tells me that there are times that you have to admit to yourself that you suck, before you can change or progress. He embraces this part in his skiing and has no hesitations about sucking while learning.

He advises and trains executives and CEOs that think they know everything, and they tell everyone else what to do. He trains them to realize where they don't know everything, so they can move forward.

This is a big need in the ski industry.

As a rock climber, there are some big lessons you learn, you will never be the best and many days you will suck, and you will know you suck. This is humbling, it is in your face and you can't hide from it.

Unfortunately in skiing many can hide from their sucking because the feedback loop is not direct enough. In tennis and golf it's direct, as in Rock climbing. You don't need to have someone tell you what's wrong, you know immediately. It also makes you realize clearly when you do make a breakthrough and when you are rewarded. The exhilaration and satisfaction of the reward, is often directly proportional to the pain you have to go through to achieve it.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6772
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Next

Return to Primary Movements Teaching System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 3 guests