Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

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Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby NoCleverName » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:53 am

So I clicked over to the Golf channel for a few seconds to relish in another Tiger meltdown ... at least so far ... and there was this Grizzled Golf Guru (don't know who) laying out some very PMTS-like advice for golfers.

I caught him when he was saying "most golfers think in terms of moving the mass, not individual muscles. For example, to move the shoulder they move the shoulder as a whole rather than just the muscle controlling the shoulder."

And it struck me immediately that more often than not you see on the epic-fail forum all sorts of mish-mash about "moving the cg", etc. That is, "moving the mass". While this guy seemed to be talking about starting a kinetic-chain sequence with a single simple movement.

I'm beginning to think that every sport, at the "expert" level, has a PMTS-like approach to being successful.
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby h.harb » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:44 pm

That's right!
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:43 pm

I quite agree.....I am a pretty handy 'short-line slalom waterskier' - pb of 4 bouys at 11.25m/ at 58kph...(4@38'off).
Anyway, like my snow skiing, I skied by natural instinct (a luxury when you are a ski bum) - but as my days on the the water/ snow reduced (family life etc) I needed to take a more scientific approach to my skiing.

Firstly, I completely rebuilt my waterskiing from the water up, using principles from a couple of skiers that had developed a 'new' way to ski....they called it 'west coast slalom'...boy did it work....I was able to get back into the saddle very quickly after the winter and with very little effort....

Cue PMTS....having discovered this a coupe of years ago, and painstakingly rebuilt my snow skiing the similarities between the two disciplines/ philosophies is remarkable.....I found myself flexing to release on the water, applying proper CA and counterbalancing etc etc....whereas the old school me would use muscle strength and lean.....I still occasionaly use these as my 'get out of jail' tools...

Unfortunately do the the temperamental nature of the British summer, my days on the water over the past few seasons has been lacking...however, I am always amazed at how the PMTS principles have crossed over and allowed me to rip up the slalom course....
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby h.harb » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:26 pm

HAve you watched Marcus Brown? I worked with him on his countering for waterskiing. He loved it.
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:53 am

I have indeed....effortless skiing - the hip drop is genius...... It took me about 2 months or so to meticulously rebuild my water skiing using his principles...I didn't progress until I had mastered effortless passes of the course at a particular rope length...often just working on one particular aspect.

Once i discovered PMTS, i took the same approach to my snow skiing. I quickly recognised that I was a 'good bad' skier.. My performance levels were very high, but I was relying on the fact that I was naturally athletic and probably the fittest man on the hill to get through the day...my TTS instructor qual only galvanised my bad technique... Even after a season of 'breakdown and rebuild' my journey is far from complete, but like my waterskiing, my skiing has become effortless..next step, a harb ski course end of jan 14 - cant wait....

As an aside, My 'mini mid life crisis' aged 37.....took me into the world of extreme martial arts, Krav Maga and MMA etc. I few years agao, attended a BJJ seminar by one of the most inspirational coaches I have ever met - John B Will. His ideas/ principles are all PMTS. Minumum moment maximum efficiency. At around 70kgs he has destroyed opponents twice his size...
Here is a clip of him coaching:
http://youtu.be/aH5XnqQro4U

The way I exercise is all PMTS.....Pilates based body weight training. I strive for Gymnastic strength with bio mechanically correct alignment/ efficiency...I look for it and seek it in everything I do...it's been a revelation....
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby h.harb » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:12 am

Having spent some time with Will Asher and some other top slalom water skiers, technically there are some key similarities in body alignment techniques, especially from the flexing and countering aspects.
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:37 am

Indeed there are. Interestingly enough, there is also a big gap between old school and new school ski technique. I never understood how to rotate my hips....they were locked in place purely by the nature of my bindings. I also couldn't get my head round 'move your centre of mass' through the course - how does that work?
Wrt alignment, long ago I pivoted my rear binging to release my rear knee and allow it to flex fore/aft...having short-lined slalom skied from a young age, I am convinced that this unnatural twist to my rear (right) leg is the cause for its bow..left leg is
straight. Have you ever seen any pro wake/ snow boarders walk? They all have bowed legs...

Anyway, look up Jamie Beauchesne. He is one of the few water skiers that had mastered both snow and water.
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby zarzja » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:12 am

Harald, go_large,

I have been enjoying PMTS for the last 8 years. Enabled me rebuild my snow-skiing from scratch after a 10 year break. It is in my opinion the best instruction available by light years and has helped compensate the short time I get on the snow. Harald, I ski every year in Zurs/Lech Austria.

Aside from that am an avid waterskier based in the UK... go_ large I used to ski at Princes club (now sadly closed) in London.

I have been trying to apply PMTS to my water-skiing too...

Harald, I would be very interested if you could tell us more about the conversations you had with Marcus Brown and Will Asher. Which aspects of PMTS do you think can be best applied to water-skiing? all of them? any differences you can think of? what was their feedback?

go_large, another top water ski professional who spends a huge amount of time on the snow is Chris Rossi... he spends all the winter season skiing in Alta Utah...
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby h.harb » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:16 pm

HI, We had 5 of the best water skiers in the world at this camp, including Andy Mapple, who was still amazing considering he was retired. Marcus and Will were very interested in learning about a countered hip approach I presented to them. Marcus is a snow skier and had heard about it but was not yet able to develop it.
We worked primarily on hip counter and flexing, I didn't have the expertise in rope handling or wake crossing, timing etc. these guys have. I was a slalom water skier, did barefoot, years ago mostly for fun, but never close this level.
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby skifastDDS » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:38 am

I got up on a slalom ski for the first time this weekend, but PMTS definitely works on two skis. Holding CB is easy when you have a rope, haha.
Image
Image
CA = acceleration. Fun stuff, but I'm ready for snow!
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
-Robert Frost, "The Road Not Taken"
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby h.harb » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:41 pm

Notice in my avatar and yours that your pelvis is straight inline with your leg. In your Waterski photos the mid body and pelvis are collapsed, legs bent. This is much tougher on the legs and not as skeletally efficient.
Image Will Asher, World Champion, I worked with him and he really liked the counter acting and counter balancing idea. As you can see this is perfect just like Hirscher but on water.

Image

I know you are a beginner however notice the efficiency of correct techniques in snow skiing and water skiing.
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:16 am

Those are awesome photos....despite the different disciplines, the similarity in technique/ bio-mechanics is remarkable....

I gave this a go, back in the day when it first appeared in Europe:
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Re: Move the Muscle, Not the Mass

Postby h.harb » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:37 am

I've tried all the board incarnations, I feel limited by having both feet tied down. It really takes away versatility in-terrain and bumps, plus doesn't allow for quick changes on steeps. I guess once you feel each foot can have two edges, you don't want to give them up.
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