Intuition Liners

[Bonz]

Hi all,

I was wanting some feedback on Intuiton or other aftermarket liners. I believe I'm about to spring for a pair.

I have extremely tight boots/stock liner. My toes are a mess after even a few hours of skiing. Diana did a lot of alteration to my liners last year which helped, but my toes are still jammed pretty badly and now they really get cold due to having to make a hole in them.

Anyway, I've pretty much made the decision to get a new liner. Searched for Intuition, and saw a few posts, but not much.

[pbuddingh]

I have Intuition liners in my Raptors. Mostly because I used to suffer from cold feet all the time even with hotronics in them. I also have terrible to fit feet, more than a size difference, 200 grams of titanium hardware in one foot etc. etc. That said, I think if your boots don't fit and Diana could not get them to fit comfortably, you may have the wrong boots - the intuitions likely won't get you there. I tried that route with older boots.

I would start with Harb recommended boots first, before investing in new liners. Chris checked out my feet and was able to make the raptors comfortable and fit properly before the stock liners were replaced. quite a feat with what he had to work with my feet. The intuition's were for warmth later. They are also softer than the nordica foamed liners or for that matter my stock liners, so there's a trade off too.

Another thought, as my skiing has improved and I've learned to pull them back, get forward and be more active with my feet inside the boot,(feeling my feet and ankles applying the pressure, sides and bottom) my feet are warmer and I usually don't use the heaters, unless it's really cold. So I would say apply the movements (tipping and tipping) and your feet will be warmer, rather that in my case riding around aft with little foot activity. At least it's made a huge change in warmth for me. Now that I've learned to heat up my feet by being active I would likely go for a firmer liner (I do have the firmest liner from the Intuition head office here in Vancouver).

[HighAngles]

What shell are you matching them with? What is your current shell fit (how much room for your bare foot)?

[Max_501]

Did Diana make any comments about the boot?

[Bonz]

Diana said the boots were not bad. It's definitely a tight fit. Not sure exactly how many mm's of space I have doing 'bare foot shell fit test'. I looked today, and is probably a finger width.
I do feel that if they were not right, she (or Chris) would have said so.

I've had them punched, and Chris did some other work to them in addition to canting. I dont hace any pain associated from the shell. Width feels fine. My only issue is length of the liner in relation to my toes.

At Blue/green camp last year, my left big toe really got swollen and I cold tell there was blood pooling underneath. I did some self surgery with a hot needle which created a bloody mini volcano, but relieved the pain enough to get thru camp. Diana did surgery on my liner which helped a lot too, but after skiing Friday for the first time my toes got by cold, and my toes are still very cramped. I could make it thru the season, and I definitely don't want to have to get new boots this season, so I'm looking for a liner that might work.

I've emailed intuition with the details to see if something they have might work.

[Max_501]

I've had to stretch all of the stock liners for our family. Many liners are purposely short so they don't get crimped when they are inserted into the shell. Doesn't make any sense to me but...

I've had good luck with a custom foamed liner that HSS did. And I'm a big fan of hotronics.

[HighAngles]

Bonz - you didn't provide the boot model.

[Bonz]

Atomic B-tech 120

[zuschauer]

Bonz, Intuitions tend to be warmer than stock liners (different type of foam cell), but many persons (including myself) looking for a fit that works for PMTS sometimes find that intuitions lack enough heel hold. Also, some Intuitions have a thick undersole that inhibits the use of a good footbed (HSS type for instance). So, if going with Intuition, go with one of the race oriented versions that will mesh with your Atomics (lower volume) and allow the use of whichever footbed works for you.

I agree with the foam liner comment, I have the Boot Docs foam liner in my Dodges and they help make those fit well and are warmer than the stock liners.

Zipfits are also excellent from a fit perspective, but are not warm.

If looking for just warmth, the hotronics systems will not affect fit much and deliver the heat as needed. That, along with liner stretching/surgery and possibly adding a little shell space (stretching/grinding) added near the toe should help you out.

Intuitions can be a good solution, but they are certainly not a "magic pill" or automatic solution and may affect the boot fit in other ways by making things too loose or tight where they are now acceptable.

If trying this out, make sure you can work it out with a good boot fitter.

good luck,

Richard

[Bonz]

I'm taking the boots and liner back to my fitter. He said he would take care of it, expand the toe area, and sew the liners up.

Was also,intrigued with the zip fits. Found a pair on TGR that are the right size, in the Gara model. My only concern is that even though I'm in a boot sized down at least two sizes, there is quite a bit of volume in the forefoot when doing a shell fit, as these boots have a 104 wide last. I'm afraid, that even if i were to get a good fit in the heel and ankle that it would be too loose in the forefoot. As someone said that you need to make sure the instep fit is really tight if using the Gara.
Not really sure the guy on tgr still,has them as the ad is quite old.

Thanks.

[HighAngles]

ZipFit liners are very low volume in the forefoot. For a ZipFit to work with a 104mm last you would have to have an extremely wide forefoot.

[kirtland]

I've used Zipfit liners for 7 or 8 years. The classic worked with a wide shell (Atomic forgot the model and Scarpa Laser) I use the World Cup now in a Head Raptor 130, after stock liners packed out and also in Garmont Radiums. I would not buy them if they cannot be returned, they vary in volume considerably. Best option is a stocking dealer, to find the one that is appropriate. Also material can be added to them if needed.

[HighAngles]

The OMFit is only added to the tongue and ankle pockets. Nothing can be added to the forefoot except for custom padding and due to the way the neoprene stretches, taped on foam becomes problematic (I know, I've tried). If you can actually use the ZipFit Classic model then your shell is too big to start with.

[arothafel]

No intent to hijack this thread... but since we're on the topic of liners...

I have Dodge Boots with the original liners. They fit perfectly... EXCEPT.. the outside liner fabric has stretched and bunches up right around my ankle. And, of course, it never bunches up the same way twice, so it's different sore spot every time.

When I get lucky and it doesn't bunch, the fit is absolutely perfect. They definitely need to be replaced... Any suggestions?

[HighAngles]

I think most of the PMTS guys in the Dodge have been foamed at this point. Harald did ski in the Dodge with the ZipFit for some time (close to a season I think), but now he's foamed too. Personally I prefer the ZipFit since the investment can easily be moved to different shells and the liner doesn't pack out. A ZipFIt can wear out, but probably not for at least 500 ski days (and could be as high as 1000 as some skiers tell it).