New Head Ski Choice 2013

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New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby seskelson » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:04 am

Well, just to get the ball rolling and give us something to think about during the hot July days.

Looking at which Head model to obtain (and replace) from the current arsenal for the upcoming season. Current I have an iM78 ( the first year's model still in excellent condition). Also last year's peak 84 Pro. ( the Icon TT80 is ging nowhere except staying in the quiver for still great skiing).

So I had been thinking of the REV 80 to replace my favorite Monster 78, but now my Head rep, whom I work with,indicates that the new REV 85 is quite different from the Peak 84 Pro and much more "fun". I normally wouldn't think of replacing my one year old (and only very lightly used Peak 84's - due to poor snow conditions). So fire in the thoughts from those who have skiied some or all of them.

By the way - I finally made it to the focal point for Harb Ski Systems -- the Sat. before Memorial Day. But no one was home. Actually it didn't surprise me. But I have my picture out in front of the shop anyway. I was going to post a picture of me in front of the shop - but I'm severly computer "video" challenged. My wife and I took a road trip to see Rocky Mtn. National Park and also visit the NSP home office as well.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby Max_501 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

seskelson wrote:So I had been thinking of the REV 80 to replace my favorite Monster 78, but now my Head rep, whom I work with,indicates that the new REV 85 is quite different from the Peak 84 Pro and much more "fun". I normally wouldn't think of replacing my one year old (and only very lightly used Peak 84's - due to poor snow conditions). So fire in the thoughts from those who have skiied some or all of them.


I've skied the REV 85. Keep the Peak 84s until they are all used up. The reps always say the next model is way better and more fun.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby seskelson » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:17 am

Max, as always, short, concise and on point. Your reply gave me a chuckle this morning. I needed it.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby Mac » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:13 am

I also own a pair of the original iM 78's, as well as a pair of this season's Peak 84 Pro. I can't imagine an 84 waisted ski that is much more fun than the Peak 84. You might want to ask yourself what it is that you don't like about the Peak 84 before you decide to get rid of it. My answer to that question would be that there's nothing I really don't like about my pair, so they'll be sticking around for a while. With all the inovations, both good and bad, in skis these days, I would be really careful about buying skis without the benefit of a good demo first. And I sure wouldn't buy any on the advice of a ski rep.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby Icanski » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:41 am

Hi,
My Supershapes are pretty beaten up and about 5 years old now, I think. Have the new supershapes changed much and is it still the ski of choice for pmts instruction. I'm skiing in Ontario, so I need lots of turns since we have short runs.
thanks,
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby Mac » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:25 pm

Apparently the SS is still the ski of choice, Harald still carries them in his shop and still recommends them (check out his updated website). I have no experience with the newer KERS SS, but I do have a pair of the new KERS SS Magnums, which I find to be far superior to the older pre-KERS model, which I also owned.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby jbotti » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:37 pm

The new Super Shapes with Kers are great skis but they are not as user freindly as the original super shapes. You should think of them as SS RD's. The Kers adds quite a bit of pop to the skis and the rebound is substantially bigger on the Kers SS. The skis are much less tolerant of sking aft and with too much weight on the tail the skis will buck and I have been popped a good foot to 18" off the ground from this. I love the skis and they are still my favorite skis ever and in the hands of good skiers they absolutely rock!! Less skilled drivers will do better with the Icon TT 80 or other skis that will not buck as hard.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby seskelson » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:18 am

Well, I picked up the Rev Pro 85. So now we will see how they compare side by side. As the local Head rep for my ski patrol it was too good an opportunity to pass up. By the way, I am coming to Denver at the end of January for the 75th anniversary National Ski patrol celebration and the SIA show. I plan to stop by the Harb shop just to say hello (and to actually say I've been there) and if anyone else is around the Denver area it would be pleasure to actually meet folks from this forum. My one ski day will be Friday Feb 1st at Ski Cooper where they are having an NSP event.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby Ken » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:04 am

Harald has some used demo Icon TT80 skis for sale at his shop. There are some 2011/2012 Head Icon TT800 skis available on the German eBay site, ebay.de. The refund of the 19% MwSt (value added tax) just about covers the air freight to the U.S. or Canada. Last year's i.Peak 84 & 78 are also available there.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby dbillo » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:42 am

jbotti wrote:The new Super Shapes with Kers are great skis but they are not as user freindly as the original super shapes... Less skilled drivers will do better with the Icon TT 80 or other skis that will not buck as hard.

I saw some iSS at Sepps in Kingston, and was sorely tempted. I'd have to say I'm one of those "less skilled drivers" though, so you've just convinced me to hold off on those. I was also looking at the X-Shape STX, which I understand to be similar to the SS but not as stiff and without the KERS. I didn't check for the TT800, but expect to go back this weekend.

...or I could just ski another season on my Volkl AC3Motion and build up my PMTS skills...
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby jbotti » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:39 am

DBillo, having skied on a variety of Volkl AC series skis, I would encourage you to make the move to a better PMTS ski sooner. The flex pattern on those AC series skis is all wrong IMO and in the opinion of other PMTS skiers like Max 501 and Harald. Your ability to do PMTS movements correctly will drastically improve on different skis than the AC series.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby dbillo » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:18 am

OK, thanks for advice. I bought those Volkls 2 years ago before I knew anything about PMTS. Will probably take a close look at the X-Shape STX and the TT800, leaning toward the former.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby Icanski » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:33 am

Since you brought up "flex patterns" this might be a good time to let us know what sort of flex pattern is[i]good for PMTS, and why. I know we don't want skis that are really wide, but it might be helpful to understand what flex pattern is beneficial for PMTS. How about cores: does a wood core have advantages for us over foam...how about metal in the core. While a slalom race ski may be great for the advanced skiers, what about the less refined pmts skier...
I know that someone who's regularly in the mountains may have need for something to handle powder better or more varied show conditions than what we Eastern skiers run into: ice, groomers, and variations of the two, except for some Quebec skiers who have more altitude...what performance characteristics benefit or enhance pmts. (I know there was some discussion of this in book 1). but may be good time for an update as people head out to ski shops to see what's available, and may not always find Head products.
thanks,
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby jbotti » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:55 am

OK. Flex patterns: you can tell a lot about flex pattern of a ski by picking it up and flexing the tips and then the tails. This will only give you a sense of how the ski flexes and the true test has to some on snow. The flex pattern that Harald likes and most good PMTS skiers like and prefer is one where the ski will bend when the tips are pressured. The ski should bend into the arc but also support the skier, Too soft a ski is not ideal. The tail should also bend into the arc especially further into the engagement part of the turn. Tails that are to stiff can make finishing a tight arc difficult, and ideally we don't want to need to overly weight the tail to get it to bend. Race stock GS skis generally have this characteristic (stiff tails that need a lot of pressure to bend them). Back to Volkls. The flex pattern that I find so often in Volkl and Nordica recreational "all mountain skis" is one were the tips are so stiff that they actually buck me off the tips. I am 6 3" 185 so I am not small and I know how to pressure the front end of a ski. The AC4 and/or 40 is a great example. Not only can I not bend the tips at the top of the arc, the tips are so stiff that I get rebound off the tips which immediately pushes me into the back seat. At my size and weight the ski skis best when I do not try to pressure the tips and when I just ride the sidecut, which we all know is not what we art trying to accomplish on skis. The tails are also way too stiff but if I haven't been able to bend the tips I am not carving tight arcs anyway bending the tails is almost moot. The tails respond to lateral pressure and skid quickly (because they are so stiff). This is why so many mediocre skiers love Volkl's. They can skid the skis easily and because they are so stiff they feel rock solid all over the mountain.

Ski Construction:
In general sandwich, vertical sidewall construction creates the best snow feel, best edge hold and the best flex pattern as long as they don't put too much metal in it. The Head lineup of carving skis that we all rave about with the Head SS, and the TT80 are all sandwich skis with really nice flex patterns. The Peak 85 which is a really nice ski is an example of ski with a GS style tail. It is a little too stiff and you need to weight it and pressure it in the bottom half of the arc to maintain the tight arc that you have started. Tips are great, tail is stiff.
In general the flex pattern that comes from a cap construction ski isn't as nice. They bend into as round an arc but usually with loss of edge hold and a less solid underfoot feel. Or they may have too much metal and will not bend into a nice arc. I don't like the feel on most and in general I don't buy cap construction skis. I would say that East Coast skiers that are skiing some large percentage of the time on ice should always be on sandwich construction skis.

So when demoing a ski, take the ski into some arcs. Notice what happens when you pressure the tips. Does the ski bend, how much does it bend and what happens to the feel and edge hold when it is bent at the top of the turn. Lower in the arc notice what happens with the tails. Do they bend into the arc naturally or are they stiffer and need to be further weighted to bend them?

It is best if a skier has skied something like a Head SS because that is a great flex pattern and that is the one that I compare all skis to in my mind. Stiffer than the SS can be good as long as the flex pattern remains somewhat even. For me softer that the SS would not be good for me, but for lighter skiers with a less developed ability to bend a ski, this might be perfect (I think the STX falls into this category, but I have not skied it).

Hope that helps.
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Re: New Head Ski Choice 2013

Postby razie » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:21 pm

I got a pair of 2011 Head SL.RD 155 at the end of season last year and was not impressed. Interesting, but kind'a bland - they don't ask for anything, take whatever you throw at them and do whatever you want. Sounds like a workhorse, but annoying really! Compared to the Fischers, they are just bland - now those suckers are fierce - they throw you up if you're not careful and you go down the mountain pop-pop-pop...

:roll:

I found a pair of 2011 Atomic D2 SL 155 now - can't wait to see what they're about, although you're saying they will suck on ice due to cap construction?

Great stuff on flex patterns - thank you!
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