Kästle MX88

[docmartin]

Has anyone skied these? They get rave reviews but the listed TR is huge. I am wondering how PMTSers would like this ski.

[Mikey B]

Have them and really like them. Crud killers and rip GS turns, and fun in some powder. Traditional camber. Super expensive. They like to be skied using PMTS technique.

If you can afford them...

Mike

[HighAngles]

Save your money. There are plenty of other skis that are just as good and better for a lot less.

[Mikey B]

Agreed. Not a need to spend so much. I got them at a super deal.
Mike

[docmartin]

well, i can get them for less than half. That's why I am thinking about it...

[zuschauer]

High Angles, as a retailer that sells Kastle, I am constantly fighting the perception that Kastles cost much more than other premium skis. What does the Supershape KERS cost? How about any of the better Volkls, Atomic VF models, Elan Amphio etc.? The cost differential is less than most peoples perceptions and I always have flexible price policies. Yes, we cannot advertise low prices, but any good retailer adjusts as needed.

More to the point
"Save your money. There are plenty of other skis that are just as good and better for a lot less."
Which skis that you have PERSONALLY SKIED ON prove your point? The MX 88 is a an exceptional ski that does many things well. Many people have purchased and commented on it, I have no need to defend it, but I am curious as to which skis "are just as good for a lot less" .

I have tried most of skis on the market the last few years and while I agree that there are many excellent skis out there, I have encountered very few that are "just as good" as the MX88.


Richard

[HighAngles]

zus - you came into battle without knowing your "enemy". I test well over 50 skis each season. I've ridden almost everything in the Kastle line. I see no value proposition in the Kastle skis. In fact, IME they are less durable than many other manufacturers' builds. They select supposedly high-quality components in their construction, but the end result doesn't bear that out for me. There are lots of people that are very happy on their Kastles, but I believe it's more about them wanting to be "seen" on a perceived high-end ski.

And remember, we're not talking about prices at retail, but street pricing and new heavily discounted Kastles are far and few between.

[zuschauer]

High Angles, this is not a "battle" and I don' t seek an adversarial relationship with anyone. I was just objecting to a statement which I perceived as negative and without any suggestion as to which ski would be a better choice for DocMArtin than the MX88. While there are many very good skis on the market, some special ones really stand out.

I have many days on the ski in question and do not ski it for vanities sake but because it does exactly what I ask of it. I can think of only a few skis that are it's "equal" in performance/versatility. Old Head IM 78 through 88, Movement Jam, Elan Amphibio, Couple of Blizzards( unsure of the nomenclature for the Blizzards). But, all of those and others I've tried have lacked some component (carving prowess, stability, etc) that the MX88's have for me. That said, they are not for everyone.

If you were to say: hey Doc martin, i have demoed the new Elan Amphibio 88 and it does everything you are looking for for hundreds of dollars less, at least you are doing more than dismissing one brand due to your negative perception of it. I sell Kastles but I keep an open mind to all brands and models. We also have Dynastar, Goode, Hart and the occasional Elan. If someone will be better served by something else, so be it. I will even send them to another shop if I don't have what works for them.

I certainly cannot agree with your assessment of the Kastle line, my only complaint quality wise is that the top sheets scratch too easily and that I prefer other bindings than Marker generally. So next year we have Tyrolia binders but same old top sheets.

As far as the skis go: excellent build quality, and skis that much more often than not leave their owners with a better ski experience than they were having previously. My customer satisfaction feedback and referrals for these skis are just excellent.
Is there some "snob factor" in premium skis? Example: We sell Goodes and while I don't like them nearly as much as their Kastle equivalents, my customers do and buy quite a few of them. They perceive the carbon fiber to be "better" and certainly more modern and exclusive. I think the Kastles have more inherent value and performance, but to each his own.

You are of course welcome to your opinion but your perceptions vary widely from mine and my customers.

Richard

[jbotti]

I will not comment on the ski quality, feel or how great they ski. I haven't skied the MX 88. I own a pair of the MX 78's but haven't gotten them on snow yet.

But with list prices at $1100-$1200 how can you can say they aren't that much more expensive than the big name brands. The Rossi Exerience 88 costs $599 with no discounting and in 3 weeks I will be able to buy it at 30% off, maybe even 40% off. Even at 40% off the Kastles will still be above the undiscouneted price of the large manufacturers skis. I also feel confident you are not selling them down 40%.

I'm just not sure your statement is correct "The cost differential is less than most peoples perceptions"

[Mac]

Owned a pair of the MX 78's, skied them all of last season. IMO, the quality and performance is good, but not off the charts. I too was somewhat disappointed in the durability of the topsheet, I would expect better for the price. I also found them to be very tune sensative. And I found them to be somewhat soft. That's not a knock on the ski, my feeling was that it might be better suited to a lighter skier. Or maybe the MX 88 would be better suited to a heavyweight. But I have not seen many bargins on them out there. Of course, with the general lack of snow throughout the country, with the exception of the NW, that may change very shortly. By contrast, I just picked up a pair of the 2012 Head SS Magnums with the FF 14 binding, mounted and shipped for $757 total. And if I wanted to wait another month or so, I could shave another $100 off of that. Is the Kastle worth twice that? Not in my book. It's not that I wouldn't buy another pair, but the price would have to be right before I'd do it again.

[zuschauer]

John, apples to apples: HEAD iPeak84 lists for $1159 but can be had online for $899 This is a very comparable ski to a castle MX

Kastle MX 78/88 lists for $1390. Do I ever sell the MX's for under $1000? What do you think? So in real street $ there is about a $100 difference

The Rossi Experience retails for $700 flat and add $300 (list) for a good binding. so a MSRP mounted of about $1000 Rossi builds a lot so many are available cheap.

Dynastar Speed Course Ti lists around $1200 with a binding but can be had for much less of course

same or more for top of the line Volkl, Blizzard etc. so there are many skis at or above $1200

Yes, the other brands end up being cheaper faster since there are more of them and there are few Kastles being peddled on the internet

are KAstles more expensive than others? Yes, is it that much? Not really and I have the bank statements to back me up.

The larger difference is when the skis are sold at discounted street level and there the KAstles and any other "boutique brand" , lag behind

My main point was earlier was not to disparage someones choice, but to offer intelligent viable alternatives instead. If you don't like Kastles or can't see the value in them, thats fine. I know lots of folks who think BMWs and Porsches are not worth it either

nuff said,this has gone far enough for me

[Mikey B]

agree with Zus...

While maybe not for everyone ....what ski is?...they are an excellent ski. They rip. As for the whole pricing thing/perception...well, IMO Kastle has also marketed themselves as "high end" adding to whatever perceptions regarding pricing.

Docmartin...demo first if you can...if they are for you and you can get that great price you speak of go for it! If you can't and the price is right, you can also pick them up anyway, and if you decide after an outing or two you are not thrilled, just resell them. There will be a market. This ski is very highly thought of by many skiers, and perform well tipping them on their edges.

Mike

[Max_501]

John, apples to apples: HEAD iPeak84 lists for $1159 but can be had online for $899

The iPeak 84 can be found for $420 flat or $510 with binding. At wholesale prices there is a significant cost difference between these two brands and I've never seen the Kastle skis come within $100 of the end of season sales for Heads because of this.

[Mac]

I agree, Max. Kastle has done a wonderful job of marketing their product as a high end, high quality got to have status symbol for those that can afford them ( or for people who want to give the impression that they can afford them). And there's nothing wrong with that. Same reason that some people just have to have the BMW or Benz in their driveway. I was partially sold on the notion that their skis were more durable and would last twice as long as other brands. After having owned a pair, I can't say that I believe the hype. The performance is good, but not twice as good as other skis I've owned. Is it worth it to me as a status symbol? Nope. That's why I drive a Subaru instead of an Audi. A lot more practical and a lot less headaches. But as they say, different strokes for different folks.

[zuschauer]

To all; the point is was trying to make is this: It is better to provide positive suggestions rather than to rip on someones choice of what they want or think they want. Sure, you can always find something cheaper out there, regardless of the brand or product. What makes you think that maybe I might not do someone a favor and sell them a Kastle or something else cheap? To me this topic and thread is all seeming a but too much like "EPIC" here and I'd rather just give Docmartin some good info to use to find a good ski for him. I really don't care what brand it is, I just wanted to see someone get what they were looking for.

Max, John, I know you can find cheap skis on the internet, In my position I am trying to provide value to consumers to make it worthwhile to by skis from my shop instead of the internet (advice, demos, tuning etc.). I also realize and stated that boutique brands such as Kastle are not as readily available on the internet as the larger brands. More power to those of you buying that way, just realize that your neighborhood ski shop cannot survive by selling Head Peal i84s for $400.

It is fine that people do not see the inherent value in products such as Kastles. That don't mean that it isn't valuable to someone else though, and it isn't always vanity, snob appeal or whatever you want to term it as.

Again, lets just give Docmartin and others asking similar questions good viable alternatives if we think we have a better answer that what they are suggesting asking about. Why are we being so judgmental and/or negative? I know Harald and Diana really like the Movements. I'm not that sold, but I truly respect their judgement and right to like and promote what they want.

Richard