Upside down position game

[Carl R]

Before starting skiing gates last year, the one thing that fascinated me the most was the upside down position in high c.
The ultimate goal for me was actually having the skis above the upper body, but I don't think I ever was close.
Anyway, here's my question:

Do you have any non camera tilted upside down position images where the skis are really high? The steeper the better.
A straight slope gives much higher scores than on a wall in a halfpipe. A curved wallride is cheating.

A shot from the side of the slope is preferred.

Game on!


EDIT (Addition from posts further down):
With above upper body I mean that the skis should be as high up from sea level as possible compared to the upper body. In the upper c of course. Like inverted in an inverted air.

It's not about useful technique. Rather about gravity play and a friendly game of pushing each other to the limits of carving.

[HeluvaSkier]

Did you see this thread? viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3264

[ibMED]

Well, we have a winner! Game over!

I've had the pleasure of skiing with Heluvaskier and I'll testify the guy in the blue coat is him. For those on the east coast who can't get to Colorado and ski with Harald, make the trip to western New York and make some turns with Greg. Bring a camera.

Perhaps my personal favorite PMTS drill is "Targeted Tipping" from Essentials where the focus is to make the edge transition without starting turning of the skis. Fun drill that can be done in any run.

[Carl R]

It's nice images, but it's a difficult shot angle.

[Carl R]

Clarification: With above upper body I mean that the skis should be as high up from sea level as possible compared to the upper body. In the upper c of course. Like inverted in an inverted air.

[HeluvaSkier]

I see what you're looking for. When I get home from work I'll do some video review and see what I can find. Without a perfectly placed transition (in relation to the photographer) this will be tough...

One important thing to note is that in many cases you will not see the body too far down the fall line from the skis int he high-C because extending into the arc happens later in the turn - so comparatively, the feet are going to be much closer to the body. Forcing extension early in an effort to get the skis uphill of the body could induce a push-off move that will throw the skier out of balance, thus killing high-C engagement - even though the aesthetics might be there.

[Carl R]

I think that for really close to inverted positions, it's almost neccesary to ski the prior turn up the hill in high speed (Is this sentence readable?) so that there are centripetal forces already built when the skis are passing 90 degrees to the fall line. Meaning that the C is really a "C" and not a "(".

[cheesehead]

....One important thing to note is that in many cases you will not see the body too far down the fall line from the skis int he high-C because extending into the arc happens later in the turn - so comparatively, the feet are going to be much closer to the body. Forcing extension early in an effort to get the skis uphill of the body could induce a push-off move that will throw the skier out of balance, thus killing high-C engagement - even though the aesthetics might be there.

Like I have said before, I come at these discussions from the perspective of an intermediate learner rather than an instructor.

I think it would be helpful to teach this -- " DON'T throw your hips from one side of the skis to the other -- change your KNEES from one side of the skis to the other."

I realize that is one of the basic lessons of PMTS. But I think a lot of beginning PMTSers don't get that. Similar results, but if you throw the hips over, you usually get rotation and/or leaning along with it. "Change the knees" keeps the focus down low. Am I on the right track here?

[HeluvaSkier]

Yep - I definitely understand what you're saying. The skier would have to release with a lot of energy, almost up the hill as you say. The release energy is the key to getting it right. The challenge is that holding the bottom of the turn in order to get that kind of redirection is likely to kill a lot of the release energy. Speed and pitch are a requirement.

[HeluvaSkier]

Like I have said before, I come at these discussions from the perspective of an intermediate learner rather than an instructor.

I think it would be helpful to teach this -- " DON'T throw your hips from one side of the skis to the other -- change your KNEES from one side of the skis to the other."

I realize that is one of the basic lessons of PMTS. But I think a lot of beginning PMTSers don't get that. Similar results, but if you throw the hips over, you usually get rotation and/or leaning along with it. "Change the knees" keeps the focus down low. Am I on the right track here?

I think you're right-on about the hip, accept I'd urge you to think even lower in the chain - the feet and ankles.

[Carl R]

Yes this is not about useful technique. Rather about gravity play and a friendly game of pushing each other to the limits of carving.

[milesb]

best i can do

[HighAngles]

What has been pointed out, but not necessarily stated is that in an effort to get REALLY upside down many skiers hip dump (I am/was one of them). That's why I pointed out that page 96 of the Essentials book clearly points out what the goal should be from the transition into the high-C of the turn. In PMTS the clearer goal in the high-C is to show your ski bases to the people standing above you on the hill. We want to maintain strong edge engagement through the high-C and you will definitely lose that if you fling your body down the hill with a big extension move.

[Carl R]

Here's a couple "early initiation" images but it's a way too flat slope to be truly inverted at.
I'm aiming straight at the photographer if you can see the eyes.

[HeluvaSkier]

I've had the pleasure of skiing with Heluvaskier and I'll testify the guy in the blue coat is him. For those on the east coast who can't get to Colorado and ski with Harald, make the trip to western New York and make some turns with Greg. Bring a camera.

I don't think that skiing with me is a substitute for skiing with Harald, but thank you for considering me to be in that league. Anytime my skiing is considered to be anywhere close to the level of Harald's, I consider it to be one of the best compliments that could be given about my skiing. I just hope to live up to it.

Speaking of coming to WNY to ski - will you be making it this spring? I know you've hit HM in the past in the spring. Let me know if you might make it.