New Post ; Knees , PMTS and Glucosamine Sulphate

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New Post ; Knees , PMTS and Glucosamine Sulphate

Postby jclayton » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:03 am

Point taken from Thor on lists post .

In my experience my knees are suffering a lot less as a result of the use of above mentioned medication ( NATURAL ) , gym work BUT probably more than anything else, passive turning techniques of PMTS . In my case at least the old steering methods led to almost wenching the skis around at times . ( trying to ski on one leg using TTS sometimes left me in agony ) . Now I can ski a whole run like this and still finish the day . ( shortish run that is ) .
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Postby Bluey » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:16 am

This stuff must be good as my vet recommmends it for our old abrador's arthritis of the hip........its also got a lot of following similar to shark cartiage....both of which are easy to get from any local Health shop.


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Postby jbotti » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:21 pm

After straining a meniscus (luckily it was not torn) my orthopedist recommended that I start taking Glucosamine at 1500-2000mg per day. My knee pain had remained after doing physical therapy and did not fully diminish until after I started taking the glucosamine. Evidently thare are clinical studies that do show substantial increases in suppleness to the ligaments and tendons. I have also found that a significant and committed stretching routine has also done wonders for my joints. Greater flexibility = increased range of motion, substantially less pain and decreased risk of injury. Of course very few want to invest the time or go through the pain to substantially improve flexibility. I can say that it is worth it.
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Postby Guest » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:37 pm

I started taking 2000 mg per day 2 months ago, and it seems to finally starting to work.
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Postby Ott Gangl » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:53 pm

Luckily I don't have any joint problems, but I have a nephew who is a race coach and he has been taking shark cartilege for eight years twice a day and he is still fast in the slalom which he fore runs.

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Postby jclayton » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:45 pm

It does seem to take some months to really take effect .

What are the studies of the inclusion of Chondroitin , I have heard various opinions but nothing conclusive ?
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Postby BigE » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:53 pm

Including chondroitin works better (according to my sport med dr) but it's much more expensive that GS alone.
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Postby Pierre » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:31 am

I am only going to say this once as after that I may sound like a kook.

6 years ago I was 5'8" tall and suffering symtoms of capatable with lupus and rheumatoid athritis. My knees and joints hurt bad. Gulcosomine helped but did not cure it. Then I found a cure.

I started on a blood type diet from the book "Eat Right 4 You're Type" by Dr D'Adamo. I went to being like I was 30 years younger. Within a year I had regained cartilage enough to be 5"9" tall and knees to ski bumps again all day long.

Some other things that were a suprise. Total immunity to sunshine. I do not use sun screen even all day long at 12k ft. I have much better aerobic and anerobic ability even without much exercise. I am no longer suseptable to altitude sickness or sea sickness.
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Postby BigE » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:07 pm

Yes it does sound kooky. Especially since the diet has been debunked by the medical community. I am not a doctor, but have read a few things.

I would suggest that there is a food that you have limited or stopped eating to which you were allergic. Allergies are auto-immune system disorders. It is also believed by some that rheumatoid arthritis also has it's roots in immune system malfunction. The removal or restriction of that food would allow your immune system to function with less or no impairment. Consequently, the rheumatoid arthitis induced side-effect would disappear.

Since the origins of arthritis are unclear, my quackery is on pretty safe ground. Probably even safer than Dr. Adamo's ability to reduce the complexity of human metabolism down to one factor (blood type). Or the (comparitively speaking) lightening fast genetic adaptation required to support his world view.

But, you have found a path that has lead to good health, and that is really all that matters. Congrats!
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Postby Pierre » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:10 pm

BigE I have seen to many people who have no allergies benefit to degunk it no matter who says it. One thing about expert pundants. The are experts if they are more than 50 miles from home. I can find you and expert to debunk just about every medical advance.
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Postby BigE » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:21 pm

Pierre, it's ok. Some Adamo supporters are even my friends, we agree to disagree.

As I recall from the book, type O people should lower their carb intake.

Guess what? Most people that do that lose weight, regardless of their blood type. Since most folks in the US have type O blood that means taking his advice would show benefits to most people. Science or serendipity or common sense? You can choose to believe what you will.
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Postby Pierre » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:48 pm

BigE its much more than belief and No, I don't restrict carbs or calories. Sounds like you do not know much about the diet.

I am a researcher so I do keep diaries on diet. With 6 years of experience I have explored all facets of the diet. With a diary you can see trends. Some of the no no's I have added back in and some of the so so's I have had to eliminate. I would guess about 80% has stayed.

I have not found one person who has not seen some benefit from the diet. I have seen serveral people who did not see enough benefit to hassel with changing the way they eat that much. I have only met one other person who has had the dramatic effect that it had on me.

I spent a lot of money to find out what the problem was. Over $50,000 at Cleveland clinic from 1984 to 1990 alone. I spend another $20,000 with shrinks after being refered from the clinic. I haven't seen either since the book.
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Postby BigE » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:28 pm

Wow. That's an amazing result. I am glad it worked.

As a researcher, you know that reactions in laboratory conditions do not immediately extend to reactions in the human body. And, that the sample size you have monitored is much too small to draw the conclusion that diet and blood type are strongly correlated.

And that's really the point: Adamo says the correlation exists, and everyone should eat this way. Your experience is truly amazing, I am truly astounded.

I too have witnessed dramatic results in others from changes in diet, that later were revealed as contributing to things like yeast infections or simple allergy avoidance. I cannot say if all of these dietary changes were in accordance to Adamo or not. In one case I do know that yes, the person did follow Adamo's diet - she lost weight and had less bloating after eating. She is a believer.

Anecdotal evidence has shown this diet to be "successful" at some level for some folks. At issue is whether or not the hypothesis is supportable -- not whether good dietary habits contribute to one's general health. Of that there is no doubt.

I regret that I cannot agree with the hypothesis that blood type is a key/defining marker in the performance of human metabolism.
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Postby Pierre » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:37 pm

Yah know BigE, I had all those questions about the hypothisis and the quality of the data. As far as I could tell there really wasn't much other than his experience that supported his conclusions.

Why did I try it. I was damn sick and would have tried snake oil if I thought it would have no detrimental affect. It was all food so I gave it a try.

For better than a year I wouldn't push the barriers and use myself as a gauge to check the validity of his findings. After 6 years I am convinced without proof that what he has is valid. And I did not do it in the laboratory.

This is what I have found. If you don't hurt you are free to find fault. If you hurt you are free to question the data but you cannot argue with a person made well by the information. Even at times now I start questioning whether I am kidding myself so I will repeat pushing the parameters with a different wrinkle. I get hammered every time. Still every time I read the book I feel like a kook again.
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Postby BigE » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:54 pm

Nope. Can't argue at all. I've no intent to do that!

OTOH, you experience has made me more interested.

5' 8" to 5' 9" is intriguing. Yet I can't see an inch of knee cartilege growing back, so there's got to be another explanation. Perhaps at 5' 8" you were radically dehydrated? Disks in the spine can become thinner as a result of dehydration, and less functional, and possibly quite painful. Meniscus can become thinner and less resilient so that damaging knees requires less trauma. Some could call that pain "arthritis".

My personal experience with Ketogenic diets (Atkins is in that class), is that the lack of glycogen in the body means that water won't bind. ( One part glycogen binds to two parts water. ) I was doing a cyclical ketogenic diet, so I'd carb up on the weekends to ensure sufficient energy to make it through the weekday workouts -- weekends were for resting. I would gain 7 to 9 pounds each weekend from the carb-up, and loose 9-11 pounds from M-F. Net result: approx. 2 lbs of fat off per week. No measurable lean tissue loss. (used fat calipers etc.)

Unfortunately meniscus and discs take the longest to full re-hydrate (over two days.) Consequently, I tore both meniscii doing deep squats while warming up. Fortunately, I did not hurt my back.... Good hydration is critical to good health.
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