Recreational low time skier, where to start

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Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby hammer » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:21 am

Been lurking for some time...

I'm a 46YO East Coast intermediate skier and I've been skiing for around 6 seasons or so. I can hack my way down trails up to a groomed black and have tried bumps a few times without much success. The last time I was videotaped it looked like I had a prominent A-frame and I think I saw a slight wedge in my turn entries. I do tend to feel awkward on turn initiation.

Unfortunately, while I'd like to get out skiing a lot, I usually don't...if I get out a dozen times in a season I consider myself fortunate.

I have the "Anyone can be an Expert Skier 1" and "Harald Harb's Essentials of Skiing" books and I have made a few feeble attempts at the drills, but it was difficult to tell if I was doing anything properly and I didn't follow up on it.

Regarding equipment, I have been to a bootfitter and I have custom footbeds. My skis are intermediate level all-mountain skis that I am comfortable with.

Is there a way that PMTS can help me to get to the next level without an extensive amount of time? If so, how can I maximize my "improvement time" on the hill and still have a chance to just go out and ski?

I know I am asking for a lot and would understand if the answer is "you need to dedicate more time"...but any tips would be appreciated.
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby Skizoo » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:09 am

Hammer, If I were you I would take one or 2 of my limited available ski days and hook up with a PMTS qualified instructor.

There are not many in the east but there is a thread that mentions Glen Scannell in the Waterville Valley area

http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2706&p=28415&hilit=glen#p28415

http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2703

I think that if you could spend one full day with a qualified PMTS instructor, you would walk away with a solid foundation for improvement.
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby geoffda » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:40 am

If you can't get together with a PMTS instructor, the next best thing would be to post some video of yourself free skiing on easy, groomed terrain. Make sure the camera operator keeps the frame as zoomed as possible. In addition, post video of any drills you have been working on. With video, the forum can help you focus your training and give you feedback on whether you are accomplishing the drills correctly.

Primary movements are likely where you will need to start your focus. Specifically, you want to focus on developing your tipping ability, but understand that you will need to develop flexion and some ability to control your fore-aft balance along with that. Work on the tipping, flexing, and fore-aft drills in Essentials in combination with developing a basic release and using it to link turns using the Phantom move as described in Book 1. If you can achieve this, you will notice a significant improvement in your skiing ability.

You may also consider purchasing the Essentials DVDs to help you better understand how to do some of the drills. Ideally, you'd want to purchase all three, but if funds are an issue, I'd recommend purchasing them in the following order: #1 (tipping), #3 (flexion & fore-aft), #2 (complete upper body).

Good Luck!
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby Mac » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:33 am

Hammer, where do you ski mostly? If you don't have access to a qualified PMTS instructor, the next best thing to do would be to hook up with someone that is familiar with the system. I'm sure that there are many PMTS'ers out there that would be willing to hook up with you, myself included.
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby Ken » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:08 pm

Hammer

Three things:

Learn tipping. The hardest part is letting go of other habits. From the books, and get the videos, learn just tipping the inside foot.

Next, learn tipping and flexing the inside leg to lighten the weight on it. Just tipping first, then tipping and flexing.

Third, learn tipping and flexing the inside leg and pulling the inside leg back.

Do all these in sequence; don't try step three before you master step one, and before you master step one and step two. Do post some video so we can spot any bad movements that you need to neutralize. The upper body movements add to the movements of the feet. You must get the foot movements working for you first, so be patient. PMTS = Primary Movement Training System, and the primary movements are all in the feet.

To end the turn, you must release. Simple; relax both legs and let the skis come flat on the snow. To start the next turn, tip the other foot. Flex to lighten, pull back. Ski. Enjoy. Keep it simple and don't try to do too much. Your friends will be amazed how your skiing is rapidly improving.
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby kirtland » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:32 pm

Hammer,
Your challenge is to find things you can do, that emulate the movements you want to do to improve your skiing, when not skiing. One of the easiest and cheapest is to run down hill, with a pair of ski poles, preferably through the woods and over obstacles, zig zagging back and forth like skiing. My experience is most people who are active, already know what moves to make to stay in balance. You will probably stay counter acted and counter balanced without thinking about it. Also you will probably let your upper body move down hill, when you touch your pole. Very similar to what happens when you relax your stance leg and release from an existing turn. To me it is amazing how much it reinforces the movements for expert skiing and that we can do it automatically.
Another thing you can do is to go out on roller blades treating them as if they are skis and make the PMTS movements. The next step up from that is Harb Carvers which emulate skiing much more closely. They are not as forgiving as skis and basically require you to make the proper moves. The asphalt is not forgiving at all, so I'd recommend some body protection.
A third thing you can do is use a Skiers Edge. It is not only a good conditioning tool, it reinforces relaxing or releasing then extending, to move to the other side similar to skiing.
The last activity is to use the videos that Harb Ski Systems have available. Watch them over and over and let yourself visualize the movements. Visualization is probably underestimated as a learning tool. I am reminded of Killy coming out of the Hospital after an illness and winning a race. When he was asked "how was he able to do that" he replied that he visualized it when he was laying in bed.
Have fun. Kirt
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby hammer » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:48 am

In the end I didn't do anything specific in this area... :(

I did get out skiing a decent amount, but I didn't get much time on my own when I could focus on drills...so I occasionally tried to concentrate on what my feet were doing. I looked at a few videos that were taken when I was free skiing and I still saw the A frame and I also noticed that I was rushing my turns. Some of this is physical but I do think I have some mental blocks to overcome as well.

While my skills didn't really improve I still had a good season. Had my first trip to UT where I was absolutely spoiled by the terrain and snow conditions, and I had the opportunity to join a local recreational race team which really challenged me.

Thanks for all of the inputs and I'll see what I can do next season. I do think that PMTS can help but it seems like one has to be focused and dedicated to make it work.
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby Skiasaurus Rex » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:38 am

Hop on You Tube,

check out skiwhh (Harald's youtube tag ) and work through the learn to carve video especially the one on building a two footed release/ brushed carve. This is the Bullet Proof short turn. Harlad's easy to follow sequence is dynamite and useful to any level of skier with any amount of time. I discovered these free videos over a year ago and then had a friend who is an enthusiastic PMTS'er introduce me to the rest of the books and drills.

Just working on the TFR/Brushed carve building sequence for 1 hour every time you ski and trying to make those movements the basis for all your ski turns will change your skiing forever-even if you only get out 10 times a year.

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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby dbillo » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:01 am

hammer wrote:...I looked at a few videos that were taken when I was free skiing and I still saw the A frame...

One thing that helps my wife with her "terminal A-frame", is something often mentioned by Harald in Book 1, and that is, in addition to lightening/lifting, and tipping the free foot, to also pull it in against the stance foot. One of his descriptions of this (I forget what page) is to think of it as pressing the arch of the free foot against the ankle of the stance foot. When she remembers to do this, the A-frame vanishes.

Side note: We just received the DVDs we ordered that go with Books 1 and 2, and I must say, the info in DVD 1 is adding tremendously to our understanding of the movements. Kind of wish we had them at the start of the season.

Watching Harald demonstrate and describe the PMTS movements in slo-mo video really makes them crystal clear, in conjunction with the still images and descriptions in the book. If you didn't get them with your books, I highly recommend ordering these DVDs and watching them over the summer.
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby kirtland » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:17 am

Hammer,
Check your Personal Messages in the User Control Panel at the top left of the screen
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby cheesehead » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:51 am

hammer wrote:In the end I didn't do anything specific in this area... :(

... I looked at a few videos that were taken when I was free skiing ....


Feel free to post the videos if you still have them.

Don't feel bad about what you did this season. As any Cubs fan will tell you, "there's always next year."
--- aka John Carey
Madison, Wisconsin
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby dan.boisvert » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:28 pm

hammer wrote:In the end I didn't do anything specific in this area... :(

I did get out skiing a decent amount, but I didn't get much time on my own when I could focus on drills...so I occasionally tried to concentrate on what my feet were doing. I looked at a few videos that were taken when I was free skiing and I still saw the A frame and I also noticed that I was rushing my turns. Some of this is physical but I do think I have some mental blocks to overcome as well.

While my skills didn't really improve I still had a good season. Had my first trip to UT where I was absolutely spoiled by the terrain and snow conditions, and I had the opportunity to join a local recreational race team which really challenged me.

Thanks for all of the inputs and I'll see what I can do next season. I do think that PMTS can help but it seems like one has to be focused and dedicated to make it work.


I think you have to be focused and dedicated, but perhaps not in the way it sometimes seems from reading the forum. From reading here, it's easy to get the impression that in order to improve, you need to spend 80% of your time doing drills and very little time on non-drill skiing. I think this sounds like drudgery to most people, and it certainly does to me. It's especially difficult if you've already got friends who ski, because they're going to be on your case to go ski with them instead of doing drills on the bunny hill. Improvement does require time and energy, but I don't think it has to be the drudgery it can sometimes sound like.

I've been focusing on PMTS for a little over a year now, and my skiing has improved a lot, based on the feedback I've received from other PMTSers and now the periodic liftie or stranger. I don't think I've spent a single day where 80% of my time was dedicated to drills. My "drilling" is typically confined to 5 minute segments here and there to find a movement or range of motion, and in between those, I focus on putting the drilled movement into my skiing. Here's how it's been working for me:

1) Find a problem - I've been fortunate to ski with Glen Scannell a bunch this year, so he usually does this part for me. :D
2) Spend 5-10 minutes working on a drill that lets my body feel the movement needed to correct the problem...maybe it's a new movement I need to add, and a drill helps me feel it, or maybe it's more of an existing movement, and a drill helps me find the range of motion I need to strengthen it.
3) On every turn until that movement is working right (validated by Glen for me, but video on the forum would work, too), I focus on putting that movement into my skiing. I'm not kidding about "every turn", and that's where the focus and dedication comes in for me. The cool part is that you can do this while zooming around with your friends, since none of them know what you're thinking about. Fixing these movements makes your skiing better, so it's not like it's going to slow you down any or bother your friends.
4) Once that movement is working right, return to 1).

You do need to stick to slightly easier terrain than you otherwise might to avoid reinforcing survival movements, which can be mildly inconvenient, but it's not that bad. I've avoided tight trees entirely this year, and was generally avoiding bumps until I started working on them intentionally a month or two ago.

Additionally, skiing with other PMTSers helps A LOT. It's really useful to get reinforcement of movements and approach, and really cool to ski with people who are all happy to stop for 5 minutes to work a drill. An extra set of eyes is really useful, too. I'm not sure where in the East you're located, but there are a bunch of us around, and there's even an annual meetup we'd be happy to see you at.

I'm glad you had a good season, and I hope next season can be even better!
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby hammer » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:51 am

Thanks for the advice.

I'm located in MA but do about all of my skiing in NH within 2 hours of home (day trips).

I only went to Waterville once this season but it's on my go-to list for next year. Guess I should look into how to get some time with Glen Scannell.

I'm also going to see if I can get new boots for next season. My Tecnicas have served me well for the past 5 seasons (had footbeds and some custom work done) but I think I'm at the point where I need something stiffer.
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby Skiasaurus Rex » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:32 am

Where in MA?? You might be driving to far for quality skiing..since you stated you had trouble finding the time. Figure out exactly how much time you have every week to ski, and find a place you can get to easily and often. Our west coast PMTSers will laugh at this, but-consider finding someplace within an hour and 10 minutes that offers weekday night skiing. Night skiing can be a real boon to a skier who needs more time to work on skills but has a very busy schedule (kids, job, wife, etc-we've all been there-and in my case, I am still there!).

I figure, hit up Glenn Scannell before the year is over. Then work on stuff locally early next season, go to waterville again and then come home and work on stuff. Repeat (and maybe save your vacation dollars and days to hit a PMTS camp in 2012).

Don't give up-it's worth the effort.
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Re: Recreational low time skier, where to start

Postby Max_501 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:52 am

There are many dryland exercises and activities that can help with PMTS skiing. Some of been mentioned in this thread. Others are in the books.
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