TFR and Phantom move

[hkskier]

When to use TFR and when to use tipping to the little toe side with the phantom move?

[Max_501]

"Lifting is for learning, lightening is for expert skiing"

In a general sense it is easier for many people to learn PMTS movements by starting with a one footed release (the phantom move). As skills progress they learn the movements needed to perform a TFR.

Carving on groomed runs can be a one or two footed release. As the turns become tighter (for example, in a SL course) I am likely to use more of a one footed release because its quicker release and more dynamic.

As I venture into off piste terrain the TFR becomes very important. Especially if the snow is deep or heavy.

In Bumps I will use a combination if the snow is firm.

[federico]

Today in Soelden I've seen a lot of (intentionally...) weighted release in the steepest part of the course.
DONT confuse it with recovery "jumping change" or worst the horrid inclination thing...

I was happy for a very brilliant Manuela Moelg, inclination (unintentionally...) costs
Karbon the race as her coach Stefano Costazza litterally stated.
Keep an eye open on Federica Brignone, she is 19, she is an "animale da gara"
(race animal) and GOT RID OF INCLINATION via hard work with her coach.

Sorry for Youcanski (I've seen him doing inclination drill in Hintertux) but
my friend Gianluca Rulfi, head coach of Italian WC speed disciplines team,
told me : "Federico we dont use inclination, is the energy of the previous turn!!!"

Federico

[jbotti]

Just to clarify because when I first read the question it seemed as if tipping was used in one and not the other. The TFR requires as much tipping as does the Phantom move. In the phantom move, one can actually get away without tipping all that much. Poorly done phnatom moves involve lifting the free foot and simultaneously engaging the BTE of the new stance ski. In the TFR, there really is no easy way to do it without large amounts of LTE tipping. Again, done properly both require large amounts of tipping.

Probably not what you meant to imply, but I did read it that way the first time.

[hkskier]

"Lifting is for learning, lightening is for expert skiing"

In a general sense it is easier for many people to learn PMTS movements by starting with a one footed release (the phantom move). As skills progress they learn the movements needed to perform a TFR.

Carving on groomed runs can be a one or two footed release. As the turns become tighter (for example, in a SL course) I am likely to use more of a one footed release because its quicker release and more dynamic.

As I venture into off piste terrain the TFR becomes very important. Especially if the snow is deep or heavy.

In Bumps I will use a combination if the snow is firm.

Thanks. You made it quite clear.

But you said that "lightening is for expert skiing".

I know that when one's skis are in high angle carve (and with speed, of course), one needs to 'retract' the stance ski to regulate the pressure build up, and thus 'lightening', to get to 'neutral' (flat skis), and then change edge by tipping to the other side. But I am not quite sure what "lightening" will mean in TFR.

I am more interested in speed control to ski steeper terrain, so using TFR and brush carve is of intense interest to me.

BTW, I have had HH's first video tape, "Anyone can be an expert skier" when it first came out more than 13 years ago (1997). I did not find TFR mentioned or presented in the video. Was TFR not yet 'developed' by HH ?

[newskier]

BTW, I have had HH's first video tape, "Anyone can be an expert skier" when it first came out more than 13 years ago (1997). I did not find TFR mentioned or presented in the video. Was TFR not yet 'developed' by HH ?

I would just go buy all the PMTS books and videos if I were you. I did that the first year and more.

[hkskier]

I do have all the latest HH videos.

The reason I asked the question is that in the first video produced by HH back in 1997, he stressed that all the renowned WC racers were using the phantom move or one footed release.
Now we are emphasizing the TFR, why? Do the present day racers all going to TFR now ?

[Max_501]

Now we are emphasizing the TFR, why?

Do you have:

Anyone Can Be an Expert Skier 2: Powder, Bumps, and Carving (Book and DVD)?

[Hobbit]

I think you should be able to do both types of releases and use them based on the situation as Max described in his earlier post.

[h.harb]

The present WC skiers use both. Versatility is the name of the game. The one footed release is learned first because it's conveying more obviously how you should stand on your skis when the going gets tough. The Phantom Move will move your skiing along more quickly from lower levels. It will also assure that when you do learn the TFR you are doing it with the proper background, so you don't regress.

[hkskier]

The present WC skiers use both. Versatility is the name of the game. The one footed release is learned first because it's conveying more obviously how you should stand on your skis when the going gets tough. The Phantom Move will move your skiing along more quickly from lower levels. It will also assure that when you do learn the TFR you are doing it with the proper background, so you don't regress.

Thank you HH.

But I am a bit baffled by this sentence, " ......it's conveying more obviously how you should stand on your skis when the going gets tough."

[MonsterMan]

Thank you HH.

But I am a bit baffled by this sentence, " ......it's conveying more obviously how you should stand on your skis when the going gets tough."

If you aren't standing you're doing something wrong seriously wrong! Sitting and getting a wet arse is for snow boarders and TTS ski classes when the "instructor" is a bore.

[Max_501]

Sometimes we get caught up over thinking PTMS concepts. The good news is that PMTS is a nice simple system to learn. Start with Book 1. Once you have it mastered move to Book 2. Essentials can be read for extra drills and instruction in conjunction with or after reading Book 2.

[hkskier]

The present WC skiers use both. Versatility is the name of the game. The one footed release is learned first because it's conveying more obviously how you should stand on your skis when the going gets tough. The Phantom Move will move your skiing along more quickly from lower levels. It will also assure that when you do learn the TFR you are doing it with the proper background, so you don't regress.

What I meant is that "how is one footed release conveys more obviously how one should stand on the skis?"

[geoffda]

The present WC skiers use both. Versatility is the name of the game. The one footed release is learned first because it's conveying more obviously how you should stand on your skis when the going gets tough. The Phantom Move will move your skiing along more quickly from lower levels. It will also assure that when you do learn the TFR you are doing it with the proper background, so you don't regress.

What I meant is that "how is one footed release conveys more obviously how one should stand on the skis?"

If you do a one-footed release, you have no choice but to shift not only your balance, but all of your weight to the new stance (outside) ski. If you pick up one ski, that means you have to stand on the other. In difficult, hard snow conditions, you want to be standing with all of your weight and balance on the outside ski. A OFR is a very active release and it is pretty intuitive (i.e. tough to get wrong). The TFR is considerably more subtle and refined and it is easy to end up releasing the wrong ski first (and stemming) or never making the balance transfer (and ending up out of balance on the inside ski), As others have said, starting with the OFR gives you the fundamental movements that you can then refine to develop the TFR. Again, the key word is refine. If you don't have those movements to start with, the TFR will likely just reinforce bad habits.