At what age can a child be taught to carve?

[Max_501]

Here's an 8 year old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr3lv4ZhUhY

[h.harb]

This is very nice and for most skiers, this is very impressive. However, if you look at the transition the skis are clearly on opposing edges and in a wedge. SO there is no release of the stance ski. This is an important missing element and more concerning to me than how great the carving is in the arc.

I've been coaching some kids from Squaw, they are now 8 years old and they carve better and they do it on very steep slopes. They also have a transition that releases the stance ski, so their skis are at the same angles through the transition. What is amazing is that they understand what they are trying to accomplish. Not that this has any bearing, but their parents have had them watching the "Expert Skier 1", video since they were 5 years old. They know the moves and they don't even think about them, they just do it.

So the answer is yes, kids at 8 years can carve and they can do it perfectly. Does it mean they will win world cup races? No. Carving is much easier and no longer a measure that you will be a great skier some day.

Although it is nice to watch a young kid carving arcs.

[Max_501]

This is very nice and for most skiers, this is very impressive. However, if you look at the transition the skis are clearly on opposing edges and in a wedge. SO there is no release of the stance ski.

Could this be a movement left over from being taught a TTS progression that starts with a wedge?

[BigE]

Maybe the kid's boots need alignment.

[h.harb]

The reason for the wedge in this skiers, is technique and nothing more. If you don't release the stance ski, and hold the big toe edge, while pushing the other ski to it's new big toe edge; you have a wedge and both big toe edges on the snow. Also this increases stance width which makes it even easier to get into the wedge.

Watch the "Power Release" video to see how to eliminate the wedge.

[PimpMySki]

I believe "BigE" is right: It`s the boots which needs allignement.
Beside that - the kid is pretty cool. I watched the training vids on youtube as well.

[h.harb]

I believe "BigE" is right:

I’m sorry, but a belief system is way above my pay grade. I’m not in the spiritual business; I leave that to priests and ministers of the faith.

I base my views and back up my statements on skiing, using 40 years of coaching and evolving alignment systems, and after measuring thousands of skiers. I have thousands of pieces of empirical data based on accurate measurements. I believe they call that facts?

But believing is nice and it is proven to make thousands of people "feel" good.

[PimpMySki]

YEP! new boots - as BigE analyzed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i9P4hM2VEg

[h.harb]

I believe "BigE" is right: It`s the boots which needs allignement.

BS

Pimpman:
Stop pimping the boot alignment and your boot issue philosophy, when what is needed is better movement coaching or I'll post some video that will make you regret it!

[BigE]

The movement issues are still there, a bit less but still there.

[h.harb]

What is that supposed to mean?

A bit less than what?
What are the movement issues?

[geoffda]

My 5 year old daughter and my 4 year old son are starting to carve. My daughter is pretty wide stanced yet (still wedge based), but even from a wide stance she is starting to tip the inside ski. It's a confidence thing with her and as she gets more comfortable with tipping, I expect she'll be more willing to lose the platform.

My son is a little more willing to listen to old Dad and he has narrowed up his stance a bit and is having an easier time of it (more parallel than not). On Sunday I caught him trying to make Phantom Moves. He would lift the free foot way up, then tip the ski and plop it down with some edge. The movements were crude, but they demonstrated rudimentary balance and tipping.

It is really fun to watch them as they work out how to make their skis turn. They are starting to get it and both of them can--on occassion--lay down clean arcs. I don't imagine that it will take too long before they really get confident enough to ramp up the tipping and leave the wedge behind for good.

BTW, in Warren Miller's Impact, there are two segments that include 4 year old Bridger Giles from Aspen. At four, Bridger was laying down arcs that would clearly put him in Heyoka's 97th percentile. He was Nastar National Champion in his age group that year. You can clearly see PMTS movments in his skiing. Somebody taught him right!

[BigE]

She is still on opposing edges through transition. Not as harshly set, but still opposing.

[BigE]

Oops, I only answered half the questions.

The important movement issue I see is a lack of release before transferring and engaging the edge of the new stance ski. The sequence I see in her is transfer (which shows opposing inside edges), engage, (which has happened during the time the opposing edges appeared), release (of old stance leg).

The correct movement pattern is release, transfer, engage. She is not releasing and allowing the turn to develop, rather, she is moving from the safety of one edged ski to the safety of another. This is due to a lack of tipping and stance that's a bit too wide. To be fair, the stance width is a bit better than the original video. That was far too wide.

[h.harb]

Until both her skis are flat in transition, her feet are too wide. Did you watch the video I put up of another 8 year old doing it right; in faster, rounder arcs, on a steeper, more difficult slope?

I was always amazed as I watched seasoned PSIA, veteran, trainers, telling skiers and trainees, they should stand even wider, as they skied in an ugly "A" frame. I observed this going on more than I care to remember. Does anyone see why I was totally disillusioned by PSIA?