Re: tfr - restarting

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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby h.harb » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:16 pm

Hello HK, I mistakenly deleted your first post and video that came with your thread, please repost it, I'll try to place it at the beginning.

HK, you received valid, serious, valuable consideration from many forum members and it was information that could have made a difference and headed you in the right direction without wasting your efforts and time on Epic; reducing your skiing to pivoting and twisting movements without gains in any department. Now you are "restarting" so we will try to take you seriously again, as long as you don't try the back and forth game you played earlier in the year?
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby Bolter » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:13 pm

I will take a chance. I hope that is a smile face and not a smirk or you will awaken the smiter.

I understand that you want to improve your release. The Two footed Release should not be driven by Rotation. Look at 3sec mark.

Focus on the skis- the movements of the feet and "the rest of the body will take care of itself."

IMO you are doing most of the movements required but the "leading" upper body is not correct.

Hints from ACBES2:
-Start with equal edge angles of both skis
-Feet and ankles control the grip and release
-Stand centered and keep feet under your hips/body
-Begin by flattening the lower ski first
-Keep lower ski weighted as you flatten
-No muscular effort (or turning force of Rotation) is needed to direct the skis; let the tips aim down the mountain

Here are a few of mine from early last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgOnGBmR ... annel_page
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby geoffda » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:18 pm

Well I'm new enough to PMTS that I can benefit from the MA practice. I also think that the system is good enough to warrant handing out a second chance. Given that several members have emphasized to HK the need to commit exclusively to PMTS if he is going to do it, I'm inclined to believe that is why he is here & give him the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway, here is my MA FWIW. Where I see the problem is in the release. It looks to me like you are using rotary movements to pivot your skis into the fall-line rather than releasing them from edge. The light is really bad and the video quality isn't great, so I may be wrong. However, several things have me concerned. First, I'm not seeing any movement of the downhill foot to start the release. Second, there is some movement of the right arm and what appears to be a slight twist of the torso to start the release; your arm pulls across your body as you turn. Third, when you are facing the fall line, you can see that your counterbalancing is backwards. You are leaning into the hill. If your skis had come flat, your hip would be slightly down the hill and your counter balance would be opposite. That suggest you are still hanging on to some edge, which would suggest you didn't tip your down hill foot enough to fully release. Once you are in the fall-line, you make a pronounced tipping movement with your free foot and you see a nice "O-frame". At that point, your stance foot is drawn over into the turn and you finish with your hips finally ending up inside the turn. There is a bit of a hitch as this all comes together and I believe it is because your skis are not flat when you finally start to tip.

The good news is that you are demonstrating a strong tipping move out of the fallline. So you have the tipping skills to make the release work (assuming my MA is correct that it isn't). Just focus on tipping the downhill foot to release and the rest will follow.
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby carver_hk » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:24 pm

Thanks all for helping out. I used the word restarting on purpose. I checked the dictionary.com just to make sure I didn't mean anything else. So I ll hang on to PMTS until I was told in this forum that I got solid PMTS skiing. I am not aiming too high like an PMTS instructor but someone having fun on the mountain that can be identified as PMTS skier some distance away. :D

Going back to my MA. My understanding from the input specific to my tfr is that:

1. I need to weight both skis with center balance before start
2. release lower skis first but keep some weight on it, get some momentum during the release (to make CB possible?)
3. -No muscular effort (or turning force of Rotation) is needed to direct the skis; let the tips aim down the mountain (this is the hardest part as I did it without self awareness)
4. CB upon entering falline. This is self-awared but I just couldn't do it well.

later,

Martin
I love line graphics :)
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby h.harb » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:27 pm

This isn't your Epic ski lesson. Maybe you thought pivot slips with hip rotation was the way PSIA wanted you to release. Well, in PMTS, we don't use hip rotation and we don't force the skis to pivot, that's PSIA. That's what you are doing, forcing the skis to rotate with hip thrust. Releasing is an art not a forceful muscle activity. Use and wait for gravity to take your skis and to release your skis. Use a slow tipping movement off the edges, with your ankles and foot movements. After the skis are flat and headed to the falline, use CA and inside foot tipping, the rest is cake. No hankie-panicky, no smoke and mirrors, no BB BS, just logical movements that are easy to recognize and evaluate. You don't need a wedgie_board to figure out good skiing, you don't need the oracle or an encyclopedia to figure out the meaning, just English.
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby carver_hk » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:00 am

Thanks Harald. It is true that having learn pivoting did make it much harder for me to do the TFR. I can actually feel pivoting crept in after the fall line when tipping was bad. I even fell among the first dozens of attempts. Falling always happen before the fallline. Well, no trace on my pants. After all the responses I believe I got a very good idea of what's wrong with my tfr. I ll try to do a good update within a month. :D

later,

Martin
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby geoffda » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:46 am

Hey Martin,

Regarding your item #4: my comment about the fall line was simply meant as a reference for the video. That is, if you pause your video when your skis are pointed down the fall-line, you'll see that your hips are located to the outside of the turn (which is backwards). I wasn't suggesting you wait until you get to the fall-line to CB.

With a TFR, CB has to happen in response (and in proportion) to tipping or you lose your balance and fall over. You will have to counter balance (slightly) as soon as you start to release and you will continue to counter-balance as long as you are tipping. However, with the low speeds and low edge angles being used as part of your TFR practice, you shouldn't have to think about it. In fact, if you do, your brain might "get in the way." Practice the dry land tipping exercises and you will see what I mean about CB. It should start as an instinctive movement.

If you are still having trouble with this drill, have somebody video the release portion of this drill with a close up of the back of your legs from hips down to the feet.

<edited to change confusing verbage>
Last edited by geoffda on Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby h.harb » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:25 am

The reason you are falling is because you are beginning the whole process with a hip rotation, well before the falline. This is happening because you are not using tipping to create releasing, (or untipping) .

I think all forum members should pay close attention to this, as many skiers don't understand the importance of spending time learning tipping. I keep saying this, JohnB keeps saying this, MAx501 keeps saying it and so do Bolter, Helleuva etc. down the line yet, the importance of the tipping message isn't getting through. I devoted a whole DVD to this topic for this very reason, so people could have access to the movements that are not taught in TTS. Go out and learn how to tip your skis before trying advanced exercises. The next step, if the home remedy isn't working, is a PMTS coach.

Ask Max501 how many days he practices tipping. You have to begin learning to tip with the basic exercises, as in the Tipping DVD, the TFR is too advanced if you don't have tipping movements developed.

The amount of time wasted without a valid PMTS coach present, while trying to include advice from TTS instruction, should now be "Completely Obvious" to everyone. Mixing of good PMTS information with TTS information, always results in confusion and creates results that lead to the inefficient TTS dominating. It is unfortunate that the bad movements dominate, but that seems to be the trend we see with TTS remnants in skiers. Max didn't mess around, JohnB didn't mess around once they figured out that PMTS provided the results. Those that hung around with TTS are still suffering or starting over.
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby h.harb » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:39 am

In the TFR, there is a critical point where hip and torso counteracting movements toward the outside of the arc have to be used. This movement should be initiated at or just before the falline depending on how slowly you produce the release. The CA movement creates the balance shift to the new side (outside ski) and allows the tipping toward the new side to begin. Be clear I said CA at or before the falline with the hip movement. I didn't say leaning the hip to the inside, which often happens with rotation. Keep the hips neutral (centered laterally over the boots) and use just a small, subtle countering movement. At first to get through the transition many skiers will use the old forceful hip counter rotation movement. This will kick the ski tails out too far and too quickly to the side. It is however preferable to have the old CR movement to a hip rotation movement.
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby h.harb » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:52 am

Geoffda, you have the right idea and a good explanation, however did you mean "pointed to the inside of the turn".
you'll see that your hips are pointed to the outside of the turn (which is backwards)
pointed or moving to the outside would be correct.
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Example: Two footed release

Postby h.harb » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:22 am

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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby geoffda » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:30 am

h.harb wrote:Geoffda, you have the right idea and a good explanation, however did you mean "pointed to the inside of the turn".
you'll see that your hips are pointed to the outside of the turn (which is backwards)
pointed or moving to the outside would be correct.


Looks like my word choice was misleading--thanks for calling it out. Yes, the hips should be pointed or facing to the outside of the turn (i.e. CA). What I was trying to describe with my mis-use of "pointing" was that his hips were actually located to the outside of the turn (and therefore pointing to the inside) which is backwards. They need to be located to the inside of the turn (while pointing to the outside). Aplogies for the confusion! I've changed my original post accordingly.
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby h.harb » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:42 am

This may help, the inside hip does lead in the turn, which causes the pelvis (belly button) to face the outside.
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Re: tfr - restarting

Postby geoffda » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:52 am

h.harb wrote:This may help, the inside hip does lead in the turn, which causes the pelvis (belly button) to face the outside.


Much better way of saying it. Thanks!
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counter acted before releasing

Postby h.harb » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:22 pm

Image
Leading with the inside hip
Belly Button facing the stance boot
Inside hand over inside ski tip
Pole touch to the side, not toward the tip
Eyes looking down the falline

These are strong characteristics of a excellent finishing stance.
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