All you need to know!

[h.harb]

All you need to know about ski instructors is they aren't interested in getting better. If they were, they would have looked, read and used the information on this forum. They don't bother to look for better information. Look back at the volumes of great information on this forum, go back months and years, check out the threads and posts. There is more valuable information here about skiing than anywhere on the planet.

[Marek]

I do Harald, I do. Week ago I injured ( very badly ) my right knee, so I have a loooot of free time to explore the forum, from the very first tread.

[h.harb]

SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR KNEE HAVE A FAST RECOVERY.

[Marek]

Thank you. Hope my ordered DVDs, I am waiting for, will arrive soon.

[grambo]

If they were, they would have looked, read and used the information on this forum. They don't bother to look for better information.

I guess they've never heard of google or have never walked into a Barnes and Noble and looked in the ski section. Your book is the one I see most consistently. WOW What's up with our sport?

[Japow]

Maybe they don't like all the instructor bashing that goes on around here? I am interested in getting better, that's why registered, but I really dislike this aspect of the forum. I've always hated instructors who talk down other peoples teaching, if I get a client who has had some suspect (imho) advice from another instructor, I don't say that instructor is rubbish, don't listen to them, I just explain that we might do things differently.

I don't want this post to be about the merits of PMTS vs other instructing systems, because honestly I don't know that much about PMTS yet, but surely you must be able to entertain the possibility that maybe the view you currently have of how to ski might not be perfect, has it not changed over the years? Will it change in the future? There have obviously been a lot of good skiers without PMTS, I have skied with a few ex world cup downhillers, demo teamers from the PSIA and NZSIA, CSIA L4s, high level racers, mogullers and pro freeskiers and they all have different styles, I also bet all of them became amazing at skiing without PMTS and probably with a lot of help from instructors/coaches.

There are a lot of shoddy instructors out there, no doubt (especially in America), but there are lot of good ones as well, why not recognise that and maybe they will start listening to you.

[Bolter]

Maybe they don't like all the instructor bashing that goes on around here? I am interested in getting better, that's why registered, but I really dislike this aspect of the forum. I've always hated instructors who talk down other peoples teaching, if I get a client who has had some suspect (imho) advice from another instructor, I don't say that instructor is rubbish, don't listen to them, I just explain that we might do things differently.

I don't want this post to be about the merits of PMTS vs other instructing systems, because honestly I don't know that much about PMTS yet, but surely you must be able to entertain the possibility that maybe the view you currently have of how to ski might not be perfect, has it not changed over the years? Will it change in the future? There have obviously been a lot of good skiers without PMTS, I have skied with a few ex world cup downhillers, demo teamers from the PSIA and NZSIA, CSIA L4s, high level racers, mogullers and pro freeskiers and they all have different styles, I also bet all of them became amazing at skiing without PMTS and probably with a lot of help from instructors/coaches.

There are a lot of shoddy instructors out there, no doubt (especially in America), but there are lot of good ones as well, why not recognise that and maybe they will start listening to you.

So what! Who you ski with changes nothing. IMO you need to focus on PMTS tech, not this subject. You are wrong on so many levels that you risk being viewed as disingenuous and a troll.


If you want the best from this forum, do this . . .
Post video, ask for MA, read the feedback, work on your skiing, video the results, post and repeat.

Oh yeah, take a chill pill.

That is all YOU kneed to know.

JR

[Volklskier1]

There are a lot of shoddy instructors out there, no doubt (especially in America), but there are lot of good ones as well, why not recognise that and maybe they will start listening to you.

The beauty of PMTs is that it is a system designed for and directed to the public so whether or not traditional instructors "start listening" is irrelevant.

[Japow]

Maybe they don't like all the instructor bashing that goes on around here? I am interested in getting better, that's why registered, but I really dislike this aspect of the forum. I've always hated instructors who talk down other peoples teaching, if I get a client who has had some suspect (imho) advice from another instructor, I don't say that instructor is rubbish, don't listen to them, I just explain that we might do things differently.

I don't want this post to be about the merits of PMTS vs other instructing systems, because honestly I don't know that much about PMTS yet, but surely you must be able to entertain the possibility that maybe the view you currently have of how to ski might not be perfect, has it not changed over the years? Will it change in the future? There have obviously been a lot of good skiers without PMTS, I have skied with a few ex world cup downhillers, demo teamers from the PSIA and NZSIA, CSIA L4s, high level racers, mogullers and pro freeskiers and they all have different styles, I also bet all of them became amazing at skiing without PMTS and probably with a lot of help from instructors/coaches.

There are a lot of shoddy instructors out there, no doubt (especially in America), but there are lot of good ones as well, why not recognise that and maybe they will start listening to you.

So what! Who you ski with changes nothing. IMO you need to focus on PMTS tech, not this subject. You are wrong on so many levels that you risk being viewed as disingenuous and a troll.


If you want the best from this forum, do this . . .
Post video, ask for MA, read the feedback, work on your skiing, video the results, post and repeat.

Oh yeah, take a chill pill.

That is all YOU kneed to know.

JR

I may around to some videoing at some point, as I do want to improve. I just really don't get all the instructor hate and tbh find it pretty offputting, I see no point to it at all, and when a thread like this gets created it's just asking for a response.

[Max_501]

There are some great skiers out there that also happen to be TTS instructors. Harald has said as much. The question is what happens when they done their instructor hat? Are they teaching the same movements that they use in their own expert skiing?

[h.harb]

I just really don't get all the instructor hate and tbh find it pretty offputting, I see no point to it at all, and when a thread like this gets created it's just asking for a response.

You don't get it because you don't yet know the difference between good instruction and the rest. There is a point when you will, but you have yet to realize it. It's a privilege to be here, not a right, keep that in mind. We don't hate instructors, we just know what they reap and we are warning skiers. You haven't begun to understand, give yourself time rather than trying to criticize what is being said about ski teaching. You are in the company of well informed instructors, skiers and professionals, who understand skiing, real skiing, not the trash you'll get in lessons. The understanding and information on this forum comes from people who have training beyond the most established of the TTS groups you mentioned..

You are getting a response.

[h.harb]

The only way ski instruction will change is when the general public perceives ski instruction and instructors as poor conveyers of the sport. When ski instruction is looked at like the stock market, investment brokers and bank executives, then ski instruction might change. There maybe a few instructors (like there are a few Jamie Diamonds) who are doing a good job, but this is such a small group that the public has the right to be very cautious about how they invest their ski lesson dollars.

[grambo]

the public has the right to be very cautious about how they invest their ski lesson dollars

Japow,

Here is the bottom line...I have a right to be critical of TTS, PSIA, etc. I have spent hard earned money on not just instruction, but boot fitting and alignment. I didn't just pick whoever either...I researched and made educated decisions, but how could I know that the ski community is littered with supposed experts who just don't measure up. I have been stagnated for 3 years! This is not because I'm uncoordinated. In fact, I'll be getting some video on Sat., so you can judge for yourself. The reality is that, yes, there are those individuals who've made it to the world cup level with PSIA or the like. However, I would argue that most of those individuals started as a academy kids who have a HUGE advantage. That advantage is the quantity of time they get to spend training in gates. We, who are late to the game, don't have that opportunity, so it has to be quality, which you won't get from PSIA. You might get to a certain point, but my guess is 9 times out of 10, you'll stagnate. I'm not suggesting it's ok to criticize an individual. I am also not saying you shouldn't question PMTS because I have. I have had many questions and still do. However, PMTS answers those questions if you give it the opportunity...whether it be from the Essentials, this forum, Harald, etc. I came to PMTS because it presents a complete picture, not just pieces of a puzzle that don't fit together like PSIA.

Putting work into PSIA leads to a dead end. I'm still just beginning with PMTS, but I am confident that if I work hard at it, I'll improve beyond my current plateau. I wouldn't spend time on it if I thought otherwise.

-J

[Ken]

There have obviously been a lot of good skiers without PMTS,

There are some great skiers out there that also happen to be TTS instructors. Harald has said as much. The question is what happens when they done their instructor hat? Are they teaching the same movements that they use in their own expert skiing?

There are TTS instructors who ski very well despite the technique they teach due to their natural athleticism. There are skiers doing amazing things on astounding terrain with terrible technique due to their astounding athleticism.

The question is about what will best help the skier who is a natural born klutz, like the undersigned. I ski with klutzy skiers who've taken days and days of instruction from the best TTS instructors around, and their improvement is very gradual and reaches a plateau at a not-very-high level. I've skied with klutzy skiers in PMTS camps who realize improvement at a much more rapid pace and who reach higher levels of skiing.

My gripe is with TTS instructors who fail to examine what they're teaching. For example, is an abstem (wedging out the tail of the downhill ski) a bad movement or an indication of excessive inclination? (answer: the latter). Is ankle flex an action or an indication that the body is correctly flexed and balanced (the latter). Is the replacement for an up-extension, the diagonal movement of the body across the skis into the new turn, a movement to be made or a movement that happens when balance is moved to the new outside ski, fore & aft pressure control maintained, and the up-extension avoided? (the latter). Of course, ask just about every ski instructor and you'll be told that the first choice I listed above is the correct answer to these questions. Especially the last two items are "Effective Movements" and pure dogma, but only the most astute instructors understand the point I'm making. And, I also have a gripe with the high priests who create the dogma. Their dogma regularly gets crushed by Harald's karma.

Ken

[h.harb]

Grambo, You must have a different "eye of the beholder" than mine.

There have obviously been a lot of good skiers without PMTS,

Not!