Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

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Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby patprof » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:16 am

Had an interesting experience this week which I'll share with you all. I skied on the Head Supershape Magnum (@170) all last winter. Really liked the ski. The only place I found it wanting was GS type turns at very high speed. In this situation, it felt a tad unstable. I went to Telluride for a week last winter-and I bought a pair Of Nordica Top Fuels just for that trip. They worked fine. This winter I decided to finally try the regular i Supershape. I bought them at 175. Even at this length-they have a turning radius less than 13m. Bar none-this is the finest ski that I've ever been on! It does it all-short turns, RR track carves, long GS turns at speed. And it very forgiving-to boot. Maybe too forgiving. After not skiing my Nordies all winter, I dug them out last week and have skied them for the past 4 days. What a surprise the first two days. Turns that I was making without thinking on the SS, were not turning out so well on the Top Fuels. I discovered that I was getting very lazy on the SS-especially with counterbalancing. At 78 underfoot-the Top Fuels really require a lot of effort to get them up on edge. Bottom line-it sure helped my skiing going back to a wider ski underfoot for a few days and trying to make the same carved turns that I was making on the SS. It also felt great to go back to the SS this morning-slinky smooth!
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby Mac » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:56 pm

What length were you skiing the Top Fuels? I ask because I have skied all three skis that you mentioned with different results. I'm 184cm (about 6' 1/2") and 210lbs. I skied last year's TF in a 178 and liked them very much, except that they were quite heavy. I demoed this years TF in a 170 and didn't like it nearly as well. Felt stiff and lifeless, although I was skiing it in some pretty cruddy conditions. Demoed the SS Magnum this season in the 170, and didn't feel all that secure at higher speeds, but these skis were in desperate need of a tune, no grip at all. Have skied the regular SS on many occasions, but never longer than 170. I'm going to try the SS Magnum in a 177 as soon as I can find a pair, as the Head Product Advisor on their website says that's the length that I should be on. I guess my question is do you think that the extra length of the SS in the 175 made a difference as compared to the shorter length of the SS Magnum in the 170? Do you think you would have faired better with the SS Magnum in the 177? This has kind of been my experience, that the skis I try in the 170 length are just too short for my taste (or my size). As I remember, you're a bigger guy, what's your opinion on this?
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby patprof » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:45 pm

Mac-I definitely think at your size you would be happier with the Magnum's at 177. Mt Top Fuels are 178's. If you can-demo the regular SS at 175. I think that you would like them even better. Also, my original post was not meant to be a knock on the SS. I absolutely love them. But getting on a good, wider ski occasionally will sure improve your technique (the SS's are that good).
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby Mac » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:17 pm

Funny thing is that a 78mm ski is not even considered wide any more, it's actually thought of in most circles as a narrow waisted ski. I personally don't like the wider skis, 78mm is the widest ski I use. I find that any wider than that is when you notice a considerable difference in the drop off in performance (and fun factor) on the groomers, although this seems to go against popular opinion these days. I don't see anything wrong with a 90mm+ ski if you do most of your skiing from a helicopter, or live in an area where huge dumps are the norm, but for the type of skiing I'm forced to do 98% of the time, the narrower skis are just more fun.
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby h.harb » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:23 pm

It's not fair to compare an iSS or a Magnum in 170cm to a Top Fuel 177cm. The Top Fuel is much stiffer and is much harder to get forward on. Even though I can't see you ski, I'll guarantee your arc quality and your technique deteriorates on the top fuel compared to either Head. I've skied the skis and I have to work much harder to do what I want to do on the Top Fuel.

If you want a ski, to compare to the Top Fuel, try the Monster 78, if you want a stiff Monster 78, get the Chip version. These skis will enhance your technique, not make you work harder.
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby Mac » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:24 pm

I'm also having trouble finding the SS Magnum in a 177 to demo, a lot of shops don't carry anything longer than the 170, or so I thought. But I was also told that the 177 was the most popular size in that ski, which kind of surprised me. Don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I was told.
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby Mac » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:36 pm

The Top Fuel is definitley more work, no doubt, that's one of the reasons I didn't buy them. I knew that they would wear me out by lunchtime. Say Harald, are you bringing fat skis for everyone at BV? With the amount of snow that they've been getting, I might have to get out my water skis to stay afloat! :mrgreen:
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby h.harb » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:38 pm

I am bringing my Monster 78 to Bear Valley. It's been snowing non stop for the last week. There is also another storm coming in during the camp, starting Monday, so we are guaranteed fresh powder everyday during the camp. Well, so what, a "Super Blue Camp" with only Powder snow technique to be taught . Who's complaining?
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby patprof » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:57 pm

It's not fair to compare an iSS or a Magnum in 170cm to a Top Fuel 177cm. The Top Fuel is much stiffer and is much harder to get forward on. Even though I can't see you ski, I'll guarantee your arc quality and your technique deteriorates on the top fuel compared to either Head. I've skied the skis and I have to work much harder to do what I want to do on the Top Fuel.

I'm not doing a very good job of getting my point across here. What I was trying to say is that precisely because it is much harder to get forward , and your technique does deteriorate on the Top Fuel-might be a very good reason to ski on them occasionally. I found that after a couple days on the Top Fuels (and a lot of hard work) I could get them to carve beautiful arcs. Then, when I went back to my beloved SS the improvement in my technique was noticeable. So I, for one, will get the Top Fuels out from time-to-time for these very reasons. :D
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby Mac » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:36 am

I get what you are trying to say, we just got a little off topic. I find that I have to adjust to almost every ski that I try in one way or another. It seems like a lot of manufacturers place their bindings farther back on the ski than what I like, and I feel like I have to work harder because of it. I think the TF falls into this category, along with most Volkl's that I've tried. The Head skis with the carve plates, SS, SS Magnum, etc, seem to be fine, but some of the skis with the Railflex felt like they were too far back in the neutral position. I particularly like the Fusion binding system (made by Head) on the Elan skis, I think they mount them somewhat further forward. I know I'm comfortable on them right from the get go.
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby MonsterMan » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:29 pm

I think they mount them somewhat further forward. I know I'm comfortable on them right from the get go.


I'd like to know more about the theoretical and real effects of mounting/moving the bindings forward or back. Would someone please explain this??
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby patprof » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:55 pm

If you go to the top of the page and click on "Skills & Articles", then click on "Peter Keelty"-he has a series of articles on binding placement. Good stuff!
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby Max_501 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:52 pm

It would be very interesting to see video of skiing the SS before the wider boards, on the wider boards, and then back on the SS. I'm sure the feeling/perception is that technique has improved but I wonder if the video would validate this?
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby Petter_F » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:57 am

patprof wrote:If you go to the top of the page and click on "Skills & Articles", then click on "Peter Keelty"-he has a series of articles on binding placement. Good stuff!

Sorry, couldn't find any such link (or I am blind). Could you post a direct link? Thanks.
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Re: Head SS-"Cheater Ski"

Postby Mac » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:59 am

Click on Realskiers, that will bring you to Peter's site. I'm not sure if you have to be a member or not to access some of those articles, but it would be well worth the $20 to join. Without a doubt the finest site on the web for gear info. I have read most of those articles, some of them are real eye openers.
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