MA request SL/08

PMTS Forum

MA request SL/08

Postby 4ster » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:53 pm

Greetings PMTS forum members & host,

This is my first post here, although I have been watching with interest for about a year. I have especially been impressed with the highly accurate, concise & in depth analysis by both the members & Mr. Harb. I am a lifelong student of the sport, & always looking for new insights. I have posted some on the EPIC site & recognize some of you from there. Please don't hold it against me. I have been aware of Mr. Harb for many years, but only recently PMTS. I have just read Essentials of Skiing & could really relate to this approach. Although I haven't digested a lot of the specific language & maneuvers, I am understanding the general premise. I am a very visual learner, in other words I learn by trying to copy moves that I admire. I have been influenced some by the instructor world, but more by Alpine Ski Racing. I have never skied in real competitions, but have gotten to forerun some races. I subscribe to no particular method & like skiing all conditions. I even spent a few years snowboarding during the pre shaped ski era. Until recent back problems have limited me, I spent my summers slalom waterskiing. I subscribe to no particular school of thought, except those that make sense to me.

I read through the sticky of what to consider when posting a video, & hopefully I can take it. Of course everyone has an ego, but I have skied with enough truly great skiers to know that there will always be lots to learn.

I posted the Slalom portion of this on EPIC, but didn't really get much feedback on that part. This was on a frozen Spring morning, moderate pitch & although my skis are in pretty good shape, they are not razor sharp. I was a little apprehensive about holding an edge.

If there is more information I can give, let me know.

So with that in mind, I humbly submit this clip for analysis:

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee26 ... 4f7203.pbr

Thanks in advance,
:)
JF
User avatar
4ster
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:10 pm
Location: UT

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby Max_501 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:11 pm

Is that vid up on youtube? I'm having trouble getting it to play.
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4124
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby 4ster » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:42 pm

Photobucket, let me try again,

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee26 ... 4f7203.pbr

Image

Does that work?
:D
JF
User avatar
4ster
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:10 pm
Location: UT

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby leopold_bloom » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:25 pm

Hello 4ster,

Good aggressive skiing!

One area you might want to look at is your transition between turns. One thing I see in your video is A-frame in your turn transition. This is an indication of a push off the old ski onto the new ski. If you look closely you will see that you are hanging onto the old edge while you establish the new edge. This is evident when your legs are a different angles in the early part of the turn.

One disadvantage of a push off transition is that it robs you of the momentum of the last turn just when you need it to propel you into the next turn.

A more effective transition would have you release the old edge before the new one is established. With this kind of transition (flex-to-release) you will be able to harness the energy from the last turn and let it move you into the next.

One thing to focus on is leading the new edge angles with the inside foot. After flexing to release, let the new inside foot lead the tipping.

- Leo
leopold_bloom
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:53 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby h.harb » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:32 am

I think Mr. Bloom has it right. Your skis are not engaged until the pivoting movement you create gets under control. The pivoting movement causes you to step out of the old turn or extend from the outside ski at the end of the turn. Re-engineering your skiing with initial flexing and tipping movements in transition would make a huge difference to your racing performance.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby 4ster » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:33 am

Hi Leo,

Thanks for the reply. I see the push off you are talking about, almost a downstem & a step in some instances. This is one thing that has been nagging me in my skiing for years. My new quest in skiing is to learn how to eliminate this need of creating a platform, or edge set at the end of each turn. It seems like it is kind of a dead spot, or braking movement that interupts the flow down the hill. It's been a crutch for me & feels like my feet are moving in 2 different directions at times. I have been working on the flex to release move recently, but have difficulty controlling my speed when the going gets tough. In powder & bumps I seem to pull it off pretty well, but have a hard time on steep firm snow.

I'm glad you could view the clip. Is anyone else having problems with it?

Thanks,
:D
JF
User avatar
4ster
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:10 pm
Location: UT

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby h.harb » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:39 am

JF, You just described a skier who is too far on the back of the skis. So that might be your next focus.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby 4ster » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:40 am

Hi H. Harb,

I must've been posting my reply to Leo at the same time you were. I like the word re-engineering. I am sure you have encountered many old dogs like me. What tips of drills or skiing would you have me do to learn some different movement patterns?

Thanks,
:D
JF
User avatar
4ster
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:10 pm
Location: UT

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby 4ster » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:45 am

h.harb wrote:JF, You just described a skier who is too far on the back of the skis. So that might be your next focus.


Back on my skis sounds like a stance issue, not sure if I feel that, but it makes sense. I do tend to hunch forward a bit, but I do feel that I keep pressure on the front of my feet for the most part.

Thanks,
:D
JF
User avatar
4ster
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:10 pm
Location: UT

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby h.harb » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:21 am

My first session would be to have you work on beginning turn initiations with little toe edge tipping. This is what I did with Jon Olson last winter even in GS. Notice how your knees rarely open. Your knees are strongly pinched and pressed together. Practice going out free skiing and create space between the knees by tipping first to the little toe until your hips move toward that side.

I don’t know your alignment situation, but that looks a little off. Putting the alignment right might make a huge difference.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby h.harb » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:21 am

My first session would be to have you work on beginning turn initiations with little toe edge tipping. This is what I did with Jon Olson last winter even in GS. Notice how your knees rarely open. Your knees are strongly pinched and pressed together. Practice going out free skiing and create space between the knees by tipping first to the little toe until your hips move toward that side.

I don’t know your alignment situation, but that looks a little off. Putting the alignment right might make a huge difference.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby leopold_bloom » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:24 am

Hello JF,

I think you will find the "need to create a platform" will be satisfied when you get good engagement early and through the end of the turn with tipping and countering. Nothing inspires confidence like carving through the fall line.

Breaking old movement patterns isn't easy. I would start by breaking the turn down into some basic elements.

Start with the tipping action of the feet. On a very gentle slope like a cat trail try to arc the skis using only foot tipping movements. Focus on the feet and the ankles. Try tipping both feet together such that the skis are at the same angle throughout.

Another variation: try arcing the skis by tipping only the inside foot and maintain a very passive stance leg throughout.

Try the lift and tip of the phantom move.

While you're doing these exercises try to adjust your fore/aft balance by flexing your ankles. A small change at the ankle joint can make a big difference in your fore/aft balance. When you find the balance, you will experience a strong arcing action even from subtle ankle tipping movements. It should feel like your skis are drawing you through the turn.

When your skis start turning you instead of the other way around, it's a whole new game!

- Leo
leopold_bloom
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:53 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby 4ster » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:08 am

HH & Leo,

This sounds like good advice. I viewed the clips of Jon Olson last year, that guy rips! I seem to be able to do pretty well at the things you describe when practicing on the gentle slopes, ie. little toe edge, spreading the knees (which takes some effort), and even pulling the inside foot back. On the gentle slopes I feel there is little or no pivoting going on & I can maintain equal edge angles & parallel legs. When I get some momentum going, I can incorporate the flex to release thing & a seamless rythm that seems to accelerate me, & pull me through the turn. I WANT TO DO THAT IN THE COURSE! The problem is, at some point I can't keep up with it.

As far as alignment goes, I am pronated (knock kneed?), probably kinda obvious. I ski on Lange WC 150's with a 1.5 degree anterior plane on my right sole, & .5 on my left. I have the cork type foot beds, are those considered rigid?

Thanks,
:D
JF
User avatar
4ster
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:10 pm
Location: UT

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby Mac » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:28 am

I'm guessing that your choice of boots and cork footbeds is not helping your cause any, I'll be interested to hear what Harald has to say about that. Pretty nice skiing, despite what I preceive to be an equipment handicap. I've had both Lange boots and cork footbeds, and they sure didn't work for me.
Mac
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:47 pm

Re: MA request SL/08

Postby Volkskier1 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:34 pm

4ster wrote:HH & Leo,

. When I get some momentum going, I can incorporate the flex to release thing & a seamless rythm that seems to accelerate me, & pull me through the turn. I WANT TO DO THAT IN THE COURSE! The problem is, at some point I can't keep up with it.


You may not be able to keep up because when you are back, you first have to move to center so you end up a step behind si to speak.
Volkskier1
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:03 pm

Next

Return to Primary Movements Teaching System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 44 guests