Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

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Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby Robert » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:37 am

Hello PMTS members

I’ve enjoyed reading various threads over the past year on the PMTS Forum and have become familiar with the names of some of the regular posters.

I’m asking for specific help with 1) an MA on my skiing 2) Some advice on what sort of skis I should get for masters racing and 3) Some specific advice about how to make the most when racing (or trying to race) using PMTS technique..

As a new poster on the forum I thought I should also give a brief background to at least introduce myself.

I’m an Australian who lives on the south coast of New South Wales about 3 hours drive from the Australian ski fields and ski mostly at Thredbo. Since returning to skiing about 6 years ago I mostly get less than a weeks skiing in a whole year but expect that I will be doing more in the next few years. I came in to contact with Harald’s first book about 5 years ago and a year later I was lucky enough to track down Peter Stone, an Australian PMTS instructor and have a few hours as a private lesson. That helped enormously as prior to that I wasn’t aware that I wasn’t really relaxing to releasing my downhill ski but rather having a subtle push off.
The rest of my skiing has had to be based mostly on Harald’s books and videos and my application relying on my interpretation, so a proper PMTS MA on my skiing would be very useful.

1) Request for an MA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HC5_l78K3Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9_aZaGfzAE

I’m off to Thredbo in 2 days to do the 5 day masters training before the race on Saturday so it is my chance to really work on my PMTS technique.

2) Some advice on ski selection for Masters Racing (last year I raced on Head 1400 chips and they were a bad choice for racing, way too soft and not edgy enough).

I find the supershapes very easy to ski on and suspect that want a racing performance ski but not real race stock.

I’m aged 52, basically quite athletic and healthy , have been riding a bike for the past few months to get leg strength for skiing and do yoga enough to maintain good flexibility (and vary occasionally surf and use to do Karate for some years).

At 5’10.5” I weigh 76kg and I’m skiing on 170 Head Supershapes (who isn’t). Boots are Nordica Speed Machine14 with zipfit liners.

I’m thinking mostly of Fisher World Cup RC, or maybe Head World Cup ispeed or any other recommendations. I'd be particularly interested in Haralds recommendation if that were possible since he knows the mechanics of skis, skiing and racing.

What wuld be the best ski, are there others I should consider instead. What size I should go for.

3) Some specific advice about how to make the most of racing with PMTS technique.
I had a first go at Masters last year and skied really appallingly (and with no evidence of any PMTS technique). I was 16 seconds behind the best overall time of 49 seconds but can see so many areas I can improve in. My goal this year is to drop 10 seconds off my time (ie be within 6 seconds of the fastest skier). I’ve only been able to read The Essentials properly over summer so I’ll really be working to incorporate power releases and flexing the inside foot early to pull me into greater body angles as well as plenty of CB into my skiing.

Perhaps it best for me to post some actually video of my attemps at racing technique later this week for a seperate MA.

I’ve noted the recent remarks in this forum about masters racers.

“No, instead, I'm talking about the 50-somethings in full-blown race suits skiing on Race Stock they can't bend... “ “They can't even carve a decent turn much less engage in the more esoteric nuances of WC technique. Frankly, it's embarrassing!”

“How right you both are. At least the Masters know how bad they are ( the times and score board don't lie) and much of what they do is play the game to be involved with the social aspects of ski racing, which has a great community”


Seriously! I just bought a race suit too! So that’s me.

What’s more I’ll be doing my high speed snowplough turns down the GS course carrying a giant sign saying “I'm a PMTS Skier” so you’d better excommunicate me from the forum immediately - or give some characteristically fabulous HH type advice.

But seriously, I‘d be grateful for any advice. And expect that I won’t post such long items again.

Thank You

Robert
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby trtaylor » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:52 pm

I choose to review your second video.

I'm going to jump in here with the understanding I am doing this as much to learn MA for myself, as to help you. One thing that may help you is to compare your video with one I have of Harald carving. Pay particular attention to the differences in how he releases his turns (flexing) to what you are doing (appear to be standing up). Use a video player capable of advancing frame by frame. The other big difference is his counteracting. But, he is also skiing much faster than you.

Do you have a copy of Harald's Essentials book? If you do, I think the boot touch drill in the Flexing and Extending chapter will help you. If you don't have a copy, it would be worth it to get a copy sent to you before you leave for Masters training.
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby MonsterMan » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:57 pm

Hi Robert,

any chance you could get over to Perisher on Sunday on the way home? I'll be there for the weekend with Farmer Mike, the glacier hound of Hintertux fame. We'll be boot touching and tipping from Perisher to Guthega if you want to tag along.

Geoff
"Someone once said to me that for us to beat the Europeans at winter sports was like Austria tackling us at Test cricket. I reckon it's an accurate judgement." Malcolm Milne
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby jbotti » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:34 pm

I agree with trtaylor, FLEX!!! Learn to flex and tip at the same time. The notice how flexing helps you tip. Flex more and tip more. When you get this in place, you will want to address your fore aft position which is too far back.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby Robert » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:25 pm

trtaylor wrote:I choose to review your second video.

I'm going to jump in here with the understanding I am doing this as much to learn MA for myself, as to help you. One thing that may help you is to compare your video with one I have of Harald carving. Pay particular attention to the differences in how he releases his turns (flexing) to what you are doing (appear to be standing up). Use a video player capable of advancing frame by frame. The other big difference is his counteracting. But, he is also skiing much faster than you.

Do you have a copy of Harald's Essentials book? If you do, I think the boot touch drill in the Flexing and Extending chapter will help you. If you don't have a copy, it would be worth it to get a copy sent to you before you leave for Masters training.



Thanks for giving me the MA feedback.

1) I do have The Essentials and have been studying it. Thanks for the Harald Harb skiing sample. It’s good to have one in such high res . and will help as I work this week on flexing more just before release.

2) Regarding the flexing more just before release I was trying an exercise and deliberately didn’t involve that in this but now you’ve got me thinking and I’ll cover that in thanking John Botti for his MA.

3) There is a major thing that is causing me problems and I think is the root of your observation re: standing and counterbalance.

I’ve been reviewing my second video “attempt at brushed turns” in the light of what you said and since it’s not a perspective I would have taken it has been really helpful in challenging what I’m seeing and missing in my own video.

This video was obtained during the morning of my first day of the season where I kept skiing in front of where the resort’s “snow report” camera team was set up (what a ham) hoping that they would get some footage that I could use since at that time I had little else to use for a MA. I’m sorry it’s so few turns which I then repeated multiples of so it’s long enough to see something.

During this video I was performing an exercise all morning for my first runs of the season. I probably should have labelled the video a one footed release. I was focussing specifically on getting the feeling of relaxing the stance ski to release, and then continuing to relax so I moved over the (now) old stance ski and continue that same movement as seamlessly as possible through lightening to slightly lifting and tilting. My focus was and maintaining the maximum fluid flow as I passed through flex, release, lighten lift.

So I was working quite hard on what should have been the exact opposite of standing on any ski yet I can see that in the first turn (I’m turning towards my left hand side) there is a point (where I think you are referring to) that I’m standing extended straight over the ski and all counter balance is gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9_aZaGfzAE

I always register the moment after this when somehow everything feels wrong, the ski loses the high C smooth curve and my skiing loses any sort of elegance. When I look at the first video clip “free skiing sample” I can see that most of the things that really bother me are all related to this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HC5_l78 ... re=related

After all my analysis - here is what I think I’m doing that is the root cause of the problem and I think it's been an ingrained flaw in my skiing to date:

At times when I turn towards my left I’m not just using pure tipping of the (left) free foot, I’m also actually knee and heel steering the free foot (only) to the left (not so obvious or gross movements as if I was rotating/pivoting or steering the stance foot) but instead of dropping me nicely inside the turn and setting up some subtle counter balance and gradual counteracting , as I think pure tipping at the beginning of the new turn should do, the element of free foot steering is rotating me slightly and changing the stack of my whole kinetic chain so I’m coming to standing erect stacked straight over the ski as it drops towards the fall line no counterbalance left at all. By the time I get to the end of the turn to the left, though I have tried to correct my body position it is still wrong enough that the stance ski (right ski) slips away making a snow spray with the tail slipping out slightly as I come into releasing it for the new turn. Turning right (therefore use of tipping the right foot) is much better and I don't as easily fall into the trap of prtially steering the free foot.

I’ll work on watching my tipping over the next week and maybe do some hopping tipping in the air exersizes to see if I’m onto the right solution.

Please let me know if you think I’ve misconstrued or got your observations wrong.

Thanks
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby Robert » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:39 pm

MonsterMan wrote:Hi Robert,

any chance you could get over to Perisher on Sunday on the way home? I'll be there for the weekend with Farmer Mike, the glacier hound of Hintertux fame. We'll be boot touching and tipping from Perisher to Guthega if you want to tag along.

Geoff


Hi Geoff,

Great to hear from someone so close by. Well at least when you're at the snow. I'd love to come for a ski on Sunday. Do you mean tomorrow the 2Oth or Sunday the 27th. I'll still have to figure the logistics but would be keen to catch up and do some PMTS exerscises and I think I know where you mean - that would be a long run with steady slope ideal for certain drills.

I'll message you through this forum to give you my mobile number so we can catch up and perhaps you could send yours. I'm not likely to be at th snow until after midday if it's tomorrow.

Regards Robert
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby trtaylor » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:33 am

Robert wrote:
After all my analysis - here is what I think I’m doing that is the root cause of the problem and I think it's been an ingrained flaw in my skiing to date:

At times when I turn towards my left I’m not just using pure tipping of the (left) free foot, I’m also actually knee and heel steering the free foot (only) to the left (not so obvious or gross movements as if I was rotating/pivoting or steering the stance foot) but instead of dropping me nicely inside the turn and setting up some subtle counter balance and gradual counteracting , as I think pure tipping at the beginning of the new turn should do, the element of free foot steering is rotating me slightly and changing the stack of my whole kinetic chain so I’m coming to standing erect stacked straight over the ski as it drops towards the fall line no counterbalance left at all. By the time I get to the end of the turn to the left, though I have tried to correct my body position it is still wrong enough that the stance ski (right ski) slips away making a snow spray with the tail slipping out slightly as I come into releasing it for the new turn. Turning right (therefore use of tipping the right foot) is much better and I don't as easily fall into the trap of prtially steering the free foot.

I’ll work on watching my tipping over the next week and maybe do some hopping tipping in the air exersizes to see if I’m onto the right solution.

Please let me know if you think I’ve misconstrued or got your observations wrong.

Thanks


Robert,

I took a look at your first video as well. What I see there is your stance ski squirts out as you complete the lower half of your turn. It's very noticeable at 9.2 seconds and 11.2 seconds. It happens elsewhere in the video, as well. Hopefully Harald will chime in. But I am thinking you must not have much weight on that ski in order for it to do that. Or perhaps is an alignment issue?

Are you able to do the one ski drills, like the banana turns? Before that, can you traverse across the slope towards a target on one edge and maintain your direction? Perform that test on all four edges and see what your results are. Will tell a lot about your alignment.

But, where you were skiing looked bumpy and chopped up and was throwing you around some. When you get back on snow it would be good to go to a groomed green slope and practice some of the basic PMTS drills, such as phantom drag garlands. Not too long ago I think there was a thread in here discussing good warm up drills. Search for that here and see what you find. Link: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1919&p=18436

Good luck at Master's camp. Let 'em run :)
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby MonsterMan » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:23 pm

Hi Robert, I think I sent you a pm with my mobile number. I have yours, and hope we ca catch up on Sunday 27th for a few beers, whoops I mean turns!
"Someone once said to me that for us to beat the Europeans at winter sports was like Austria tackling us at Test cricket. I reckon it's an accurate judgement." Malcolm Milne
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby h.harb » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:08 pm

Hi Robert, Thanks for joining in. I was out of town the last few days and yesterday I had a meeting with two world cup coaches at my house, I’ve been busy, so I’m trying to catch up.

I saw your skiing. You are very flexible and athletic, two good things going for you. Have a close look at your skis at the bottom of your turns. The skis go flatter rather than getting to a higher edge angle, which would be more favorable. One of the PMTS axioms is “tip the skis at the beginning of the arc, tip more in the middle and tip the most (just before release) at the end.

Your skis show the opposite, they go flatter near the end, with a skid. Yyou use a big toe edge downhill ski "dig in" move to grip. That stops the ski from skidding and then you step out of the turn. Some times you will notice the “A” frame at the very bottom, just before you step out of the turn. This happens because of your push off. This is an engrained habit and unfortunately not an easy one to change. Now that you know what is happening; you can begin the process of changing to a more fluid connected movement from turn to turn. A good exercise is the weighted release from my Expert Book 2. Also the tipping progression in the Essentials book would be helpful.

Jbotti has the right idea for you, “tip more and then flex to release. But tipping has to come first, then flexing second. You will not be able to flex (and release) , if you are not tipped onto the edge.

Here is a conceptual approach rather than a technical one. Notice your skis are almost at 90 degrees to the falline at the end of turns. Try to create your release when the skis are a 45 degrees to the falline. This requires that you tip the skis earlier and ride a turn from the high C, with the side cut engaged, rather than having the tails flat. Do this on easy Blue runs at slow speed so you have time to feel what is happening to your skis. Sensing the performance of your skis, behind the heel peice is where you should concentrate. Ask yourself, while sking, are the ski tails spreading butter or are the tails pushing the skis forward.

I’m open to questions meanwhile, good luck. Monster man will be able to help you if you go out skiing with him, he‘s a little too serious, but I‘m sure you‘ll get on well. .
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby Robert » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:44 am

Dear Harald,
Thank very much for taking the time to reply and with such detailed feedback for me. It is quite something to be able to have that level of advice given so generously.

My apologies for not acknowledging your reply immediately as I have been at the snow since Sunday afternoon our time, and not had the same internet access.

It did get a chance to read your advice and have been working on tipping and tried what I remember of the weighted release (or Von Grunigen move – if I recall correctly) since I only have the Essentials book with me. The masters training (which I’m doing to get the opportunity to run gates) is 7.00am to 1.00pm each day. So to make sure I don’t get on the wrong track I’ve been working on (my idea) of the PMTS principles until lifts close of lifts each day and felt things were going on well but today I found I seemed to be getting worse and don’t know if it is only that I’m just too exhausted from putting in too long days 3 days in a row.

I’m on the new fisher WC race skis 175cm which I was finding were going well and the flex, flex more then release was working well but when I see the video of me running gates I’ve got no counterbalance on any of the days.
I can’t understand why this is because I’m tipping and lightening the inside foot as far as I can and tipping out from the waist as far as possible. I understand that I flex the inside foot but somehow I’m not getting this right. Maybe I need to be counteracting more as well.

I’d like to post some further video when I can get it to try to locate my primary fault if that is OK.

Thanks again,
Regards Robert
PS Also thanks to John Botti for his advice.
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby Max_501 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:11 am

Robert wrote:...but when I see the video of me running gates I’ve got no counterbalance on any of the days.
I can’t understand why this is because I’m tipping and lightening the inside foot as far as I can and tipping out from the waist as far as possible. I understand that I flex the inside foot but somehow I’m not getting this right. Maybe I need to be counteracting more as well.


Loosing CB and CA when running gates is normal. For some reason when we focus on the line we forgot all of the other stuff. Also, your thought that you might need more CA is a good one. Its much easier to CB is you have CA as well because you can recruit the abdominal muscles to help with the CB movement. If you only have CB then you have to rely on the oblique muscles for that movement, which is more difficult. So, CB + CA is what you want for the perfect turn.
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Re: Request for MA & Racing Equip/Technique Advice

Postby Robert » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:20 am

Max_501 wrote: Loosing CB and CA when running gates is normal. For some reason when we focus on the line we forgot all of the other stuff. Also, your thought that you might need more CA is a good one. Its much easier to CB is you have CA as well because you can recruit the abdominal muscles to help with the CB movement. If you only have CB then you have to rely on the oblique muscles for that movement, which is more difficult. So, CB + CA is what you want for the perfect turn.


Hi Max,

Thanks Max for the feedback. I'll do some more experimenting with mixing the ratio of CB and CA movements when I'm back on skiis.

There is no doubt, even when it's only master's level, racing is a great test of technique and how well you really ski. I discovered plenty of the things that need work as well as the need for a fluid orchestration of all these skills together.

I appreciated your remarks regrding the difficulty in rememembering all the other stuff - when you are focussing on the best line, and I wasn't doing so well with focusing on line either. In fact I crashed badly in the final section of the course on my first and only run.

After misreading the line, I had to work to get through the next gate which sent me even wider for the following one, hit soft snow and ran into a gum tree whilst still carrying some speed. I'll know tomorrow whether my knee cap is just fractured or more shattered.

Despite all of that I'd recommend master racing to anyone else who hasn't done it and is thinking of it. As far as risk goes I'm sure that if I had been looking where I was going, instead of how to get back round the gate I would have have time to avoid the accidient and all skiiers chose there own speed level.

I've posted some new video and request for an updated MA after working on the number of things mentioned to date. I hope that is OK with the group and hope Harald might also chime in again with some further perspective.


Hi Monster Man,

Disappointed I couldn't make skiing today for the obvious reasons. And I was going to suggest some tree skiing after the PMTS exercises. Hope you had a good day of it.
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