MA Request

PMTS Forum

MA Request

Postby abertsch » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:29 am

Here are three clips. The first two are blue groomer, the last clip is black off piste. I spent most of last summer trying to absorb PMTS concepts via reading, and would like to take some food for thought through this summer as well. It is beyond clear that the black turns are NOT BPST, and that's what I would like to build through next season. There is plenty to improve in the blue skiing as well. I am ready for some tough love.

I did post the same video on epic, and I would really prefer if we NOT just bash the epic responses, but instead just focus on improving my skiing. It's about skiing, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdvLp-igfVQ

-Adam
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Re: MA Request

Postby trtaylor » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:44 am

This is my first response to a MA request, so here goes...

It appears you have a stem entry to your turns. This is very noticeable at 21 seconds in the video. I am not familiar with the area you skied, but you are rushing your turns. Steeper terrain is good for exposing poor movements, but not good for learning good ones.

I would suggest going back to less steep terrain and work on your tipping. To help ingrain the feeling of patience at the top of the turn, use the target tipping drill from "Essentials" (page 69). This is where you traverse across the slope towards a target. Start the turn with tipping your skis only. Start slowly, on shallow terrain to ingrain the movement. As you begin to own the movement you can then increase your speed by traversing at a steeper angle. Don't be in a hurry to take it to Blue or Black terrain. If you do that too soon your stem entry will reappear quickly.

If you do not already own a copy, I would recommend you purchase Harald's Essentials and concentrate on the Tipping chapter.

Good luck.
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Re: MA Request

Postby Volkskier1 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:46 am

Adam

When you shoot video instruct your friends to be zoomed in as tight as they can be. EVen if you bounce out of frame occasionally we will be able to see it better. I like to look at the feet and the skis and go up from there but you are so tiny.

I'm not qualified to do a PMTS analysis of your skiing. The things I do see are that you are way back, you are not centered and balanced. This along with the need for more counter balance is prob what is causing your hands to be out like they are. you need them there to balance.

In the steeper section you are relying on upper body rotation with an up move to start the turn and then your skidding. You get even further back because you get defensive. On steeper terrain if you are starting from a centered stance then flex to release and tip the skis engaging the edge at the top of the turn you will gain control.

I'm kind of lazy and not that into drills, maybe thats why my skiing sucks. But in HH's books there are some great drills. One that did realy help me a lot was boot touching. touch the outside boot then both boots at transition then the outside boot. It really helped me to identify where I need to be in a counter balance sense because I could feel the muscles on one side elongate and on the other contract. I now have a sensation that I can identify when Im free skiing. You could also benefit from just practicing rolling the skis on edge on a flat and then holding them there and letting the skis scribe the arc. This again will give you that tipping skill that starts with teh feet and help you get eh rest of your body into balance to be able to hold the skis on the edge
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Re: MA Request

Postby h.harb » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:21 pm

My first impression is that there is a single missing component in your skiing. When I describe the component it may sound at first like a non technique issue.

After I confirm that my first visual impression is supported by the movements I‘m seeing; I break down the movements that are happening, compared to the movements that could be happening, so here goes.

You look tight and stiff around the mid body and legs. You posture is out of sorts, mostly due to the reaction to the rigid stance.

You may get some benefits from the movement instructions I’ll suggest, but your alignment will also hold you back. On a number of views in the video it is clear that you are bowlegged and possibly have a rigid foot. Do you have a footbed and what kind is it?

If you have my books, I would first suggest you work on your releasing. Releasing is the key to all of your movements in a turn. If you don’t get a release, the turn looks unbalanced.

First let me describe your present release, it’s a push off. In other words, you push against the snow with the downhill edge or outside ski and then spread the other ski up hill or into a wedged angle. This movement makes the outside or downhill leg look very stiff. Because it becomes stiff after the extension or push. Ideally everyone would like to have a two footed release, but at this point I would focus on your parallel release, with a Phantom Move or Super Phantom. You will work into a parallel release after your learn the Phantom. If you don’t know what these words mean, we can explain, but they are well described and demonstrated in my book 2 and video 2. That should be a good beginning.

Remember, right now you have to make very small, incremental changes to your skiing that will reward your efforts. We have this process build into the PMTS system. This process is clearly described and easy to follow in our camps or other lessons. In this case, it’s not productive to look at overall generalities of skiing; like connecting turns or early edge, carve to carve or arc to arc. We will be able to apply these ideas or terms, only after you have made some fundamental changes to specific movements I outlined. If you jump ahead to wrong ideas or generalities, you will be come very frustrated and get confused.




I
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Re: MA Request

Postby abertsch » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:42 pm

In terms of footbeds, I currently have the green superfeet with small wedge added on one heel to reduce pronation.

My boots have been aligned, although much less alignment was needed with these boots than my first pair. I have so far resisted footbeds as I have been making incremental changes. I could easily see myself investing in footbeds next season if the current rigid footbeds are really holding me back.

I do have, and have read, all three books, so specific references to the books are easy for me to follow up on.

I definitely concur that a push off is my "go-to" move when in difficult terrain or, like around the :20 second mark in the video, when I need to make an unplanned turn to avoid a fellow snowslider.

In turns where I'm focused on it, I do believe I release with a flexing of the outside leg. I am going to try to get up to Timberline for a little summer sliding. That should be a very good time and place to work on the Phantom and Super Phantom. I don't have the books in front of me, and have always had confusion over the Super Phantom. I understand the Phantom Move as lifting and tipping the new free foot. When I don't have the book immediately in front of me, all sorts of things jumble together when I attempt to consider the Super Phantom. Could you please describe the specific refinements that are required to get from the Phantom to the Super Phantom?

Also with respect to the phantom move, if I focus purely on tipping in turns like those in the second clip, it feels like my skis are on edge, but my center of mass is lagging and hasn't commited to the turn yet. As you describe, it feels awkward, and looks awkward, as I try to get all the various movements happening at the right time and to the right degree. Then there's a period of park and ride. And then I do it again. Clearly less than optimal skiing.

Thanks,

-Adam
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Re: MA Request

Postby zkyle » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:11 pm

h.harb wrote:My first impression is that there is a single missing component in your skiing. When I describe the component it may sound at first like a non technique issue.

After I confirm that my first visual impression is supported by the movements I‘m seeing; I break down the movements that are happening, compared to the movements that could be happening, so here goes.

You look tight and stiff around the mid body and legs. You posture is out of sorts, mostly due to the reaction to the rigid stance.

You may get some benefits from the movement instructions I’ll suggest, but your alignment will also hold you back. On a number of views in the video it is clear that you are bowlegged and possibly have a rigid foot. Do you have a footbed and what kind is it?

If you have my books, I would first suggest you work on your releasing. Releasing is the key to all of your movements in a turn. If you don’t get a release, the turn looks unbalanced.

First let me describe your present release, it’s a push off. In other words, you push against the snow with the downhill edge or outside ski and then spread the other ski up hill or into a wedged angle. This movement makes the outside or downhill leg look very stiff. Because it becomes stiff after the extension or push. Ideally everyone would like to have a two footed release, but at this point I would focus on your parallel release, with a Phantom Move or Super Phantom. You will work into a parallel release after your learn the Phantom. If you don’t know what these words mean, we can explain, but they are well described and demonstrated in my book 2 and video 2. That should be a good beginning.

Remember, right now you have to make very small, incremental changes to your skiing that will reward your efforts. We have this process build into the PMTS system. This process is clearly described and easy to follow in our camps or other lessons. In this case, it’s not productive to look at overall generalities of skiing; like connecting turns or early edge, carve to carve or arc to arc. We will be able to apply these ideas or terms, only after you have made some fundamental changes to specific movements I outlined. If you jump ahead to wrong ideas or generalities, you will be come very frustrated and get confused.




I


Harald,

Based on what you saw in the video, what camp would you recommend for him?
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Re: MA Request

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:24 pm

abertsch wrote:My boots have been aligned, although much less alignment was needed with these boots than my first pair.


Do you recall what they did to align you?
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Re: MA Request

Postby h.harb » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:41 pm

I recommend any of our Blue dark Blue camps. Some are already full so check soon.

Here’s how the Super P works.
In the Super Phantom, there is more emphasis on the little toe edge of the inside ski. The S-P reduces the tendency to get the movement order wrong. Right now you movement order is off. Notice how you push with the outside leg, than move the inside or uphill ski first before you transition. In the SP the inside ski and edge remain on edge and the outside leg is flexed, the ski is lifted and the foot is tipping. Keep the little toe edge, on angle, as you lift and tilt. Do not, repeat, do not, stand or extend on the little toe edge ski. That’s the secret, if you stand up on it, that moves your GG over it. You don’t want to move your CG uphill. Just keep your skis together and you won’t need to move the CG to the little toe edge. Try to practice each step individually.



Steps to the Super Phantom.
First learn to balance on the little toe edge. To do this traverse on the little toe edge until you can stand on it with confidence. This may take many practice traverses.

Next Traverse at a steeper angle on the little toe edge and then create the P-Move action with the lifted ski. The whole lift and tilt movement should be completed before the other ski rolls or tilts off the edge. That’s the Super Phantom. It is rather challenging to hold a traverse on the little toe edge. The ski wants to go flat. So, as you make the P-move with the lifted ski allow the other ski go flat, this will become your new stance ski. Practice this in both directions. These are the steps I’m talking about.

You may have had your alignment checked, but it’s still off. Remember we do alignment based on skiing needs of each individual skier, not based on podium evaluations. Yes, I guessed it, your footbeds are rigid and they are holding you back. It’s fairly evident, I can see bad footbeds from skiing movements, while others make bad footbeds and don’t have any clue what they do to skiers. This kind of footbed never made any skier ski better. Skiers adapt to bad footbeds, that’s not an improvement.
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Re: MA Request

Postby h.harb » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:52 pm

In a more general sense, I don’t see any lower body movements to get the skis on edge. Some may ask what about tipping, sure, releasing the way I described will free up tipping. What about counter balancing? If your upper body leaning is your method of getting ski edge angles than there is no foundation for counter balancing, until you develop releasing and tipping.
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Re: MA Request

Postby abertsch » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:03 pm

Max_501 wrote:
abertsch wrote:My boots have been aligned, although much less alignment was needed with these boots than my first pair.


Do you recall what they did to align you?


I've worked with the same bootfitter through two sets of boots, but have only had the opportunity to ski with him on the first set. It just hasn't worked out for the second set. The alignment was accomplished in the shop using an apparatus that allowed tipping, but could be locked in place for measurements. Shims were inserted while repeated measurements were taken. Eventually the boots were planed, and measurements confirmed. I believe my left foot is .5 degrees and my right 1.0 or 1.5 degrees, both with me being knock-kneed. I can verify by looking at my boots when I get home.

Is there anyone in the Tahoe area recommended for footbeds with on-snow evaluation or is this best (exclusively?) accomplished at the camps?

Thanks for the advice, Harald. I'm not sure how much progress I can make without more immediate feedback though. I believe you have worked with Donner Ski Ranch to have a PMTS program in place there. Are the instructors there certified at the Blue / Dark Blue level? While not exactly the most awesome hill in Tahoe, there's certainly enough terrain there for me to work on these items. I'll check out the camps as well. I might be able to get away for a week.

-Adam
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Re: MA Request

Postby h.harb » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:19 pm

I would try to get hold of Maria Fermoille, in California, she is an experienced PMTS instructor. She works at our camps, she is getting her PhD' in Physio and makes our footbeds. If you go to Mt Hood this summer, get hold of Jay, if he's still here.
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Re: MA Request

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:31 pm

For footbeds and another opinion on your alignment try to schedule your trip to Hood when Jay will be around. He's there often. You could also do some afternoon carving.

http://www.skiersynergy.com/
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Re: MA Request

Postby abertsch » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:24 pm

Alright, thanks for the summer advice. If I go to a camp it would probably be the Super Blue camp at Bear Valley next Feb. I assume that camp would be appropriate for me since it covers the blue/dark blue levels as well. I will see if I can make that happen. Tackling the current air travel situation with skis doesn't sound very fun!

-Adam
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Re: MA Request

Postby Ken » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:58 pm

Adam, a couple of points---

--Part of the Release is the Float. That is a hard part for some folks. During the Float there is no means of control. It only lasts an instant, and after the Float the skis are on edge for more control than ever, but it is a hard point for many folks to get past. Keep this in mind as you practice the Release, and let go. The push-off is a means for some folks to immediately transfer control from one ski to the next, and we're asking you to spend a period of time with no control. Try it. The results are great.

--Exaggerate your movements. What feels like a huge exaggeration to you will look to others, and to yourself on video, as just good movements.

--After the release, tip, tip, tip more and more and more as the turn progresses. Flex the inside leg more and more and more. Pull the inside foot back more and more and more. These three concurrent movements (continuing movements, not positions) need to be smooth, progressive, and continually increasing. When the need to be done quickly, they're never abrupt, they're quick, smooth, progressive, and always increasing until the next release.
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Re: MA Request

Postby milesb » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:25 pm

Hi Adam ,glad to see you made it over here. What really helped me to make flexing and releasing my go-to move was to build a small carpeted ramp
( shown in Essentials) and practice on it in front of a mirror over and over.

And remember that in PMTS the movements are VERY deliberate, because they all lead to good skiing, there is no need to minimize them. As opposed to minimizing steering or moderating the extension into the turns. Or trying (unsuccessfully) to change both edges simultaneously. So that's why you will hear us say (tip,flex,etc.) more, more, more!
YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH78E6wIKnq3Fg0eUf2MFng
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