Tipping practice off the hill

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Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Ray » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:58 am

I have the 3 Harb books and I am aware of the tipping drills in the books. Is the "Skiers Edge" machine considered very useful or compatable with PMTS movements? Two questions: Will it help with PMTS technique and how good is it for conditioning? Thanks in advance. Ray.
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby arothafel » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:17 am

Ray
I have a Skier's Edge and really like it for conditioning. It triggers many of the same lower body muscles used in skiing. And, it can get your heart rate up pretty quickly. You'll especially notice how well conditioned you are on that "first day out."

I'm not so sure it helps in tipping or other PMTS movements except for the feeling of "transition" or "float" between turns. But, then again, I'm not by any means an expert on PMTS movements. I know that some folks use the machine in their ski boots to get a better feel.

It would be great if HH, Max, JB or someone with PMTS expertise and a Skier's Edge machine could describe or develop specific routines for PMTS movements and share with the forum.

At the end of the day, I still think the Harb Carvers provide the "biggest bang for the buck" for PMTS. Even better if you've got both!

Hope this helps.
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Max_501 » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:45 am

From a PMTS skills point of view, I think it helps with my balance, counter balance, tipping (especially the timing of tipping) and flexing the legs to release.

Great for keeping the ski related muscles in condition when you can't get to the slopes much.
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby BigE » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:38 pm

What about a "Pro fitter"? I think that the balance requirement alone could make it more appropriate.
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Ray » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:44 am

Thanks Max and Arothafel; do you have the original model or the all mountain master model which has a higher slope than the original model? it seems like the "all mountain" model might be better for flexing etc...
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Max_501 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:10 am

I have the Big Mountain model.
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby arothafel » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:33 pm

I have the World Cup.
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby MonsterMan » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:48 pm

Mine's only little! :oops:

The original, but it was cheap enough on Ebay.
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Larry_in_ME » Wed May 14, 2008 6:54 am

During my tipping exercises, there are two details I pay very close attention to and they are: tipping angle of both feet (making sure they're equal) and the weight/pressure I put on each foot (making sure they're equal too).

When using a Skier's Edge machine, is one able to do this? I'm assuming you'd have to wear ski boots when using the machine.
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Ken » Wed May 14, 2008 10:38 am

You don't need ski boots on the Skier's Edge, and I don't know if ski boots would be either safe or effective.

You don't need equal tipping angles. It's OK if the inside foot tips more, just don't use any effort to tip the outside foot--just allow that to happen. Notice the O-frame* of some skiers' legs who tip the inside foot more and allow the inside knee to open way up. They aren't driving that knee toward the inside, they're allowing it to happen just as they're allow the hips to cross over the feet to the inside. When tipping, especially in any dynamic situation, be sure you tip the inside foot more and more and more as the movement progresses.

Be able to tip and lighten the inside foot as you would on firm snow, just as you tip with equal weight as you would in deep snow.

*Opposite of the oft-seen and dreaded A-frame where the outside foot is forced to its big toe edge and the outside knee driven inward.
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Max_501 » Wed May 14, 2008 1:01 pm

I like to use ski boots on my Skier's Edge. Its not necessary and I'm not sure if its safe, but it feels more like skiing with the boots on.

The rest of what Ken said is right on.
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Larry_in_ME » Thu May 15, 2008 11:12 am

Ken and Max_501,
Very many thanks for the replies.

Disclaimer: I've only skied 9 times and crashed way more than that!

Ken, I see what you're saying; my inside foot naturally tips more, so I'll go with it.
Now for the pressure on the edge of the inside foot: it feels less than the edge of the outside foot.
My inclination is to have them equal. Is this correct?
I believe I read that the pressure should be equal for both (Essentials of Skiing).
One of my goals for the offseason is to become completely aware of what my feet are doing, so I start with tipping.
I started doing this the last two times I skied--I call feet feedback.
Next tipping question: I believe my fore/aft balance is sometimes off as a foot will twist a little during edge transitions.
Is this correct?

Max_501, what really prompted my question about the use of boots on the Skier's Edge Machine is "Can one be fully aware of tipping, etc when using the machine". To me, tipping builds awareness of what one's feet should be doing, with boots on. I can see the muscle and conditioning benefits of the machine, however "foot awareness" might be lost during use (I say "might" because I'm speculating).
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby jclayton » Thu May 15, 2008 12:43 pm

Ski boots give a more appropriate feel of tipping ; i.e. pressure the boot sides with the ankles . Doing it with runners , I think , is a bit unrealistic . Also it's more work with boots on , hence more aerobic benefit . Try with just one foot , good for balance and leg conditioning . You can count the number of reps before burnout ( try just a hundred or so at first , harder than it appears ) and can thus monitor improvement .

Still , all this is no comparison to working out on Harb Carvers .
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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby rbrooks » Fri May 16, 2008 1:52 pm

Here are a few things that have worked for me:

Use the all mountain master platform, the one with independent feet. Put the platforms on the narrowest setting. Put your feet against the inside lip of each platform--that will cause them to rock to the inside and make you knock-kneed. You have to force your knees apart to make to platforms level--that sets you up in an o-frame stance.

Consciously shift your balance as you "ski" to the outside foot. As soon as you transfer your balance, roll your inside foot to its little toe edge.

Without lifting your feet, pull yourinside foot back against the platform. I focus on a contraction of my hamstring.

Put a mirror in front of you. Keep your navel in one place on a vertical axis and use your hips to go from side to side.

At the end of each "step", pull your outside hip back slightly.

Use the mirror to keep yourself from bobbing up and down as you go up and over from side to side. Flex your legs instead.

Crouch lower on the machine as your legs get stronger.

Finally, rub your stomache and pat your head at the same time ;) .

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Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Max_501 » Fri May 16, 2008 4:58 pm

Larry_in_ME wrote:Max_501, what really prompted my question about the use of boots on the Skier's Edge Machine is "Can one be fully aware of tipping, etc when using the machine". To me, tipping builds awareness of what one's feet should be doing, with boots on. I can see the muscle and conditioning benefits of the machine, however "foot awareness" might be lost during use (I say "might" because I'm speculating).


I'd say I'm aware of what each foot is doing as they tip independently.
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