Beginner's MA request

[FuzzyPete]

Here is some pretty rough form. I have to say that there is nothing like watching yourself on video to get a different view of what is really going on with your skiing. If you have not had a chance to film yourself, I strongly suggest you find a way to do so. It is really enlightening when you look at something like flexing and you realize that you are flexing nowhere near as much as you think.

This is my first season of skiing. I have not had any PSIA lessons, nor have I spent much time trying to ski with wedges. I think that the first run that I ever did I used wedge turns and have not tried to do so since. I have all three books and have been reading through them. My intent with this run was just to make some turns trying to use PMTS principles on flexing and tipping. CB and CA are on my mind, but I am aware that I should probably focus on other things. Same thing for the poles. (I don't plant).

At this point, I welcome any thoughts on:

1) My biggest blocking issue.
2) Drills that I should really start focusing on, first.

I have my thoughts on the answers, but I would like to calibrate that against the community.

Instead of apologizing for my skiing, I'll just say that it gives everyone a lot to comment on! I appreciate the time anyone takes to look this over. This forum is really awesome in its' support for all levels of skiers, from Harold on down. I only hope that I can get away to a camp someday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvSoCl9V0T4

Oh, this is on what I would consider basic blue into green slope.

[MonsterMan]

I like your right hand turns a lot.

Do you see the difference?

[jbotti]

I will say that you look a lot better than I did after my first year of skiing and a lot of PSIA based lessons. I think it is actually quite impressive what you have accomplished.

The word "more" comes to mind, and my guess is that when you looked at the video the first time you probably saw how little some of the effortsyou focused on actually translated to your body. It seems in skiing almost everyone has to first grasp a movement and then work harder and harder until they actually can exploit that movement pattern, and then the ultimate goal is to get to the point that one get actaully max out that movement pattern (which would be tipping so much that your ankles are on the snow on modest terrain, or your hip is so low that it actually touches the ground).

Tipping is the most important essential at your stage of skiing. Work on going way beyond your comfort zone with the amount of tipping that you produce. When you get there, go back and again go past that comfort zone and find a way to tip that much more. Video tape it and watch your ability to tip improve (and if you can, show it to everyone here on the forum).

The "more" applies to the other essentials that you are also focusing on, but I and most people can only go a lot further with one essential at a time.

[FuzzyPete]

MonsterMan: I see some of that. Thanks

jbotti: Yes, when I first looked at this video I was surprised to see how little I was going any of the things that I was trying hard to do. Little tipping, little flexing, arms tucked in (I thought that I had them way out), etc... Little speed. I swear that I am zooming along!

Tipping drills are the ones that I am now focused on, actually. After reading some of Harold's recent posts, I have definitely moved tipping to the top of the list. I need to build a carpeted sloped for dryland drills, as well. I think that would really help since I have a really hard time getting my downhill ski to bite when tipping to my downhill edges. I need to keep doing those drills on and off the snow, I suspect.

thanks for the feedback!

[jclayton]

Wow !
not bad at all for the first season .

The arms are not at all bad I don't think for the stage you are at , they are in a home base position , a bit narrow perhaps but consistent and not dropping down at the turn .

It takes a while to be able to relax on the snow so stiffness is inevitable . Stepping around the turns would help you loosen up a bit . Plus it's a good warm up and fun . a good way to start balancing on each ski independently . You can make the steps longer or shorter , wider or narrower .

As Monsterman pointed out , and you noticed , left turns , leaning in . Quite a difference , we all suffer from this , at all levels .

Harald , I seem to remember , has to concentrate more on one side than the other .

On step turns you will have to balance on each edge to go around . You will find that the leaning in will have an immediate effect of loss of this balance .

I don't think this is too advanced at your level , they have first timers doing these turns on the flats .

[FuzzyPete]

Hmm.. stepping turns are something that I haven't tried, yet. I'll add it it the list to try out.

After I started reading ACBAESII, I decided to spend some more effort on keeping my stance narrow and working on one ski balance. So, I really give the Phantom Javelins a try early on each day on the slopes. Really pulling my boots together and keeping the inside ski lifted up and over has helped me understand just how much balance I _don't_ have in a lot of my turns.

Now and then I play with the idea of the weighted release just to see how far I have to come on my one ski ability before that release is a possibility. Tipping my downhill ski to the LTE just seems impossible to me right now.

[jclayton]

Re : ski tipping / ankle side boot pressure in wieghted release ;

In the summer try roller blading and as you skate off , say the right leg , incline the ankle to the right i.e. the outside edge then roll the ankle back before you change to the left leg . It takes a bit of a leap of faith but it is something to do over summer and ski skating ability improves as a side benefit . You can take the dog too .

Carvers are great of course and you could see Jay ( Skier Synergy )in Portland to try these out .

[Tommi]

Hi,

Nice beginning!. A very good starting point. In addition to the tips you've got, I would add the following.

You ski now in brushing style, which is a very good style for short turns and steeper slopes. In order to improve your counterbalance and tipping, I suggest you try also edge lock type turns to feel how the 'skis turn you':
* practise on a very easy slope, wide green or blue
* make edge lock traverses - set your body and skis to angles before you begin to slide, then just let the skis carve - just tip/counterbalance/-act, lighten the inside ski and feel the skis carve - check your tracks to confirm pure narrow trails
* when you master the previous, try releases, begin as before and when the turn develops relax your ankles, let counter unwind and let the skis return onto their bases and you'll begin turning into the fall line, the tip/counterbalance again
* when both previous drills are ok to both directions you're ready for edge lock turns

Pitfalls:
* try to resist the tendencies to turn the skis - you just have to convince yourself that the skis will work - if you twist the skis or push this just won't work - your video looks very good in this respect, I do not expect that you'll have this problem
* too steep slope will make this a lot more difficult
* back seat - remember to load the ski tips, so the showels engage - in your video this seems to be ok, but remember to keep the front pressure also in these drills
* wrong ski - in order to get results from these drills in the beginning, you need a ski with a very short radius (12m approx)

There are excellent descriptions in HH's books about these kind of drills.

When you manage to get these going, it's very easy to advance to blue slopes and get more forces and speed into the game - it will actually make these easier. When you have more dynamic skiing, it will be easier to get the feel for balance, flexing and float, and this opens the door for higher angles and some G-forces!

Your tracks can be used for feedback. Examine especially the trails in the transition phase!

Good luck!

T2

PS We got winter again! Time for some gate-brush practise again..

[BigE]

Bear in mind, I am NOT a PMTS coach. However, I want to throw this out there, and see how it is received.

Yes, tipping is best to develop, but the question is: Can developing other movements help you develop tipping?

The problem I see with focussing solely on tipping is that you are missing on fundamental movements that will help you BALANCE better. Improving those fundamental movements will allow you to improve your tipping.

As was stated earlier, the skiing is rather stiff. This stiffness is what I would address first.

I suggest any and all drills that force you to flex and extend. Touch ankles between turns, touch outside hand to outside boot, power release etc, etc.....Anything that gets you moving better.

My goal would be to get you to realize that you CAN move without falling. Then I'd work on tipping more aggressively.

All,

Would that be an accepptable teaching path?

Thanks.

[FuzzyPete]

I definitely agree that one of the first things I notice when I look at myself is how rigidly I am holding myself. However, I think that this is not a fear/concern about falling, at least on this particular slope. It is the effect of feeling like I have to consciously control every aspect of my movements. So, I'm focusing really hard on where my fore/aft balance is currently, how I'm holding my hands, am I counterbalancing and counter acting, and on top of all of that, I'm trying to remember to focus on my release and whether I'm flexing to release, lifting and tipping my free foot while remaining engaged on the LTE of my new stance ski.

With that in mind, I welcome the idea of doing more of these "movement" exercises along the way, but I'm not sure if they will result in me looking less stiff. I'm willing to give it a try, of course. Personally, I think that I may loosen up as I stop using conscious thought to control all of my movements and starting letting my body follow muscle memory. Then again, self-evaluation isn't my biggest strength.

I think that it was Harold who said that the point of a lot of drills is to do things repetitively while focusing on them so your muscles will follow the same path when done instinctively. For me, just about everything on the snow is under my conscious control right now. I don't think that I trust my body to do the right thing.

So, maybe I should stop worrying about more than one thing at a time and just focusing on tipping if that is what I want to focus on. Or, focus on flexing exclusively, etc?

[h.harb]

Critiquing advice:

Big E, thanks of contributing, I hope you don't mind me pointing out a few refinements to your suggestions.
Basically there is nothing wrong with what you said, unless I point out what might be misleading by omission.

This is a message to posters giving instructional advice: don’t think you are getting a free, “Pass Go Card”, by saying essentially, “I am NOT a PMTS coach, but here is a bunch of advice anyway.”

This disassociation attempt doesn’t get you off the hook and it doesn‘t make your advice any better or worst, it is what it is. If it’s way off base, you’ll hear about it.

I’m not trying to discourage advice being given, as most of it is very beneficial and I encourage it. But try not to absolve yourself of your responsibility, as all advice, good or less effective, has consequences.

Big E wrote:

As was stated earlier, the skiing is rather stiff. This stiffness is what I would address first.
I suggest any and all drills that force you to flex and extend.

The word "Force" may not be the best choice of words in instruction, how about, "introduce you to" or "give you an understanding for"?

If this recommendation is taken at face value, it says, "Going up and down will help Fuzzy’s skiing?" Unfortunately just the instruction (drills that force you to flex and extend) which says, moving up and down, isn't as effective as other appraoches, at this time, in fact it might produce less tipping and no CB. It might even reduce flexing, unless the flexing part, is properly timed.

Introducing flexing and extending without a very precise, complete and accurate explanation, mostly makes things worst. As most up and down skiers push their CG around. Timing advice, which flexing and extending is, has so may other necessities attached to it, it's very difficult to introduce without considerable fundamentals being in place first. Creating timing for flexing and extending is an evolutionary process based on considerable tipping, balance and CB work first.
Introducing flexing first with tipping and counter balance, is a less complicated teaching session. But it requires the proper foundation and communication between student and instructor. This communication is a building process based on the instructor evaluating the student's cognitive and movement motivational levels.

Instructors with experience can all guess at what information is trying to be conveyed by Big E. We sometimes do this, we allow a "I know what he means attitude and we give the benefit of a doubt, because everyone here supports good instruction, but sometimes this is too much of a stretch for a student . I think in this case the doubt, outweighs the benefit.

[h.harb]

Hi Fuzzy,

You are well on your way for a beginner learning mostly on your own. There a couple of things I would have you try. First, you are turning with your upper body or in a uni-body type leaning and rotating movement style. This will work for awhile on easy slopes without causing you any trouble, but it won’t bring you much further. You can immediately begin controlling and becoming aware of this by holding your arms and hands higher and wider. Every skier, no matter at what level, should look like they are expert. Expert skiers ski with their arms extended out to the side (and slightly forward, inside arm more forward). This develops a better sense of balance and a sense of how you move your upper body. The sooner you learn that this is a default position, the faster you will become aware of how to use your upper body. ( or in this case not use it)

The idea then would be to learn what it’s like to move your lower body more actively, without moving your upper body. In actuality you want to learn to move your upper body, opposite, to the way you tip your lower body.

In the Essentials book you will see there are many examples of how you can practice this indoors and on snow. I’m talking about lateral movements tipping the feet, skis and boots together in one direction(to one side) while bending the knees. You can't do this without bending the knees. Then at the same time move your upper body, (line from shoulder to shoulder) at 90 degrees to your skis (no rotation) in the other direction. This is side to side tipping with the spine, while keeping the pelvis level.

After getting accustomed to what this feels like, do the same progression on snow. Start by standing on the flats etc. Loosen up your lower body , tip to the far reaches of your range and then push farther. Learn to go back and forth from one set of boot and ski edges to the other quickly, without losing balance.

After these exercises, starting from a stationary position with skis, do railed tipping traverses. The Essentials book has a description for this progression and does the Expert 2 video. The important step here is to get to the point where the railed skis take you back up hill, to a stop. When you stop, make a complete edge change with the lower body without standing or extending the legs. These edges changes are very important, as they are your link to the same changes you will use while moving into the next turn. Practice this in both directions until you can perform changes on a very easy flat slope. Then send more video.

Most instructors don’t realize that Counter Balance should not be introduced, until a skier can balance on skis while the skis are on edge and moving. This requires the ability to tip and hold the skis in a tipped relationship, while moving. This is fundamentally learning to balance in skiing. You have to have a base under you before you start moving the upper body around, even if it’s the correct upper body movement.

You will fall over (to the inside) if you don’t counter balance the upper body relative to the tipped skis. This is a fundamental learning step.

Just introducing counter balance without a base to stand on, doesn’t give a student any reference as the counter balancing movement. A counter balancing movement alone without the tipped base won’t stick. With skiers at Fuzzy' s level it is paramount to begin with small attainable steps, so the student can become and feel successful with every new movement introduction.

[BigE]

Harald,

I was hoping that you would respond.

My disclaimer is not to absolve myself from the responsibility of the suggestion. I truly wanted some feedback, I just wanted the poster to know.

You are right, without a detailed description of the flexion/extension they could be taken as allowing the CM to be pushed about, any which way. That is an error in omission that would immediately be fixed when dealing with the student in person. But in the forum environment, being clear is critical. I should have more clearly stated that the flexion/extension drills of "The essentials" was really what I was after.

Perhaps "force" really is too strong a word, although I did want to convey the importance of movement. Fuzzy said he was surprised at how little movement he was actually getting. Moving more will be very uncomfortable/awkward at first, as it is beyond what he is used to. Being really committed to doing the drills in "The Essentials", will be awkward at first, in which case the word "force" may not be all that bad. Still you are right, a better description wouldn't hurt.

Thank you very much.

BTW: Have a good Easter weekend, I'm away until Monday.

[FuzzyPete]

Many thanks, Harold. These tipping exercises from Essentials are exactly the drills I had decided to focus on that last time I hit the snow. I need to put aside some more dryland time to do these, as well. If I understand your railed exercise correctly, you want me to put both skis on edge and slide on a very gentle slope keeping them at the same angle. The sidecut alone will cause them to turn up the slope and I will stop. (I have done this, actually, to see 2 thin lines that stay together). At stopping, I'm to switch edges of both skis to the downhill edges, right?

I have tried this exercise from the stationary on a slope and it was really really hard for me and I thought that I was flexible! The book is quite correct in how hard it is to tip that lower ski enough to keep it from sliding. I think that I mentioned in the other thread on tipping on how hard this was for me.. So.. I clearly need to work on it.

I'll focus on my tipping and hand position and come back with some more video.

[FuzzyPete]

Oh, I have to stop and give thanks to Ken for the day of skiing we had back in January. I know that I would not be where I am today without it. Thanks again, Ken!