MA request on my first attempt on BPSRT

[carver_hk]

I am fortunate enough to have 10 days of skiing in Niseko of Japan. I followed book2 and the hints by Max to work on BPSRT. The control seems ok. I was able to descend slowly on icy 42degree slope(according to the trail map), when all the others are flying down. But it is obvious that my movements are so slow it doesn't looks right. Please advise what to improve from here:

using HEAD XRC1200 2008 on around 30degree hard pack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-aHsIuL_zc

[Mac]

There seems to be an obvious up and down movement that is creating a dead spot in your turns, and is preventing one turn from flowing into the next. You're using the up move to end the turn, and then the downward move that creates a heel push that eventually brings your skis to an edge after you have already entered the fall line. If you replaced the up move as a means of releasing with a relaxing and flexing of the old stance foot, along with a tipping action to the little toe edge, it would create a much earlier edge engagement at the top of your turn, and everything would just flow from that. I'll leave the rest of the technique analysis to someone more qualified than I am, but the XRC 1200 that you are using is not exactly a short turning machine, either. Not the ideal tool for what you are trying to accomplish. I tried them last year, but they are so slow to come around in comparison to something like the Supershape, that I think if you tried another pair of skis, it would make a big difference. And I know the old saying, don't blame the equipment, it's the archer not the arrow, but I think in your case, having the right tool for the job would make all the difference. Good luck.

[milesb]

Thanks for continuing to post your progress, this is pretty fun. What makes the turn bulletproof is that there is no point that the skier is not in balance. That is what makes skiing steeps with PMTS so much fun! Your turns involve a period where you are out of balance and have to recover while trying to control the speed you picked up.
Look again at what Max501 is doing here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY1g-xxhcCM&feature=user, notice how he doesn't have to recover his balance and set the edges hard, because he never is out of balance. That is because the skis are turning into the fall line because of his balance and free ski tipping, and also because he is flexing to start the turn. When you extend to start a turn you are pushing the upper body to a different spot than the skis would take it if you let them, even if the skis are not carving! This results in having to recover. I see ski instructors doing (and teaching) exactly what you are doing every time I go skiing, up-and-around. If that makes you feel better, you do it as well as many of them, lol!
You should spend some time doing the one and two foot release drill in expert 2. Also demonstrated here http://www.harbskisystems.com/olb2.htm
The key to this is to let the skis turn into the fall line as a result of tipping the free ski, and how you are balanced. Maintain strong free foot pullback and tipping as the skis turn downhill, this will keep them from running away. Only use the pole to set up your upper body position, don't use it to turn against. Flexing and staying flexed through the first part of the turn makes this much easier. To many of us, this drill is the meat and potatoes (an American term, maybe fish and rice for you? ) of PMTS. Getting it right requires all of the Essentials.

edit- fixed link to max's video

[Mac]

Miles, I saw the same clip that you posted over on Epic in regards to that guy's request for help with his bump turns. Master that drill, and you can use it everywhere. Some of the advice that poor guy was getting over there was priceless.

[milesb]

That is my favorite thing on Harald's online ski lesson section. The first time I posted a link to it on Epic, about 5 years ago, I got all kinds of comments. Stuff like: that's a good portrayal of rotary, he's using the pole to turn against, it uses the same mechanics as a wedge christy. And what did I know then, I believed them! It wasn't until Harald started posting here that I understood what it was really all about.

[Hobbit]

The blip.tv link pointed by milesb is no longer available.
Look at this YouTube clip instead.
Great post, Miles!

[tdk6]

Not one thread on this forum not bashing epic .

Anyway, CarverHK, great skiing and good progress. Did I see you shaking your head or not, LOL, we have all felt that way form time to time. I second the advice that you go back and work on the one and two footed releses. Its not going to be easy, so be patient. The down the fall line extended arm with the pole set firmly in the snow is playing a major role and it will help you swing arround. Get the hang of it before you even try to link them together. IMO, once you start linking them together its easier to go traverse in between before you try to make the turns down the fall line. Note that when you carve you simply tip one way or annother but for BPST for instance you need to rely on different mecanics. This turn you can then use for bumps, powder, steep terrain and narrow passages. In your video you look like a WC SL skier on a steep part with gates set with a lot of offcet like in the womens last event in Austria. Nice turns. You need to lean forwards and stay lower but to me your skiing looks confident and your turns are evenly skidded, drifted, scarved, carved or whatever people want to call them.

The dredded up and down move is nothing you want in your skiing if its not on purpose. It only goes to show that your not able to turn your skis without first taking pressure off them. Lack of technique, yes, but its also lack in confidence. You need to put yourself at stake and get yourself into a state of imbalance in order to get the forces working and to recover. Skiing is like walking or cykling a constant flow of recoveries (balancing). Learn to flex and unweight through the transitions and in order to do this you need to be able to retract your legs just as you are being pushed up (ski rebound). Think of jumping on a trampolin without letting your feet get up off the jumping surface. Its not a big movement but it requires good timing. However, when you start with the one and two footed releses you will not need any up and down movements. There will also be no forces pushing you up, only gravity pulling you down. Later on as you link the relese drills together to evolve into the BPST you start to feel the ski rebound push you up and you learn to use this to unweight and swing your skis arround without that blocking pole plant that you needed for the initial drill.

[ToddW]

Hobbit wrote

The blip.tv link pointed by milesb is no longer available.
Look at this YouTube clip instead.

The blip.tv video is still available at http://blip.tv/file/195915 -- the link above had a comma added to the end. Beautiful skiing!

[Mac]

Tdk, I'm not bashing Epic in general, I've been a member over there for a long time. I've met and skied with some wonderful friends over there, and I love interacting with like minded skiers on issues relating to gear, snow conditions, travel, resort info, etc. That's why I joined in the first place. What really irritates me is some of the nonsense that a small network of these ski instructors over there continue to dish out. It's like they all are sworn to uphold some secret oath that they subscribe to, regardless of whether it makes any sense or not. Some (or most) of the advice that they continue to promote doesn't even conform to the way the ski was designed to be used. The ski schools in this country are in a mess, take my word for it, I've taken lessons from coast to coast, and it's the kind of thinking that they promote over there that keeps it that way. Like I said, I have no problem with the vast majority of members there, just a certain few that would rather drag everyone down with them than admit that it's time for a change.

[carver_hk]

Thank you all for your comments and advise.

I have been working on the following drills and hoping to piece them together. up-unweight is not my intention.

1. one/two footed release
2. super phantom move
3. one leg skiing to train balancing.

about my im-balance can someone clip a photo from my vid that shows where does the im-balance begin to happen and what causes the imbalance?

Here is another version from the same trip that shows more leg-flexion and less body un-down. Please advise what to do next to come closer to the BPSRT.

Thanks in advance for the great help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQx62u5-aT8

[rlspalding]

I dont know much on the BPSRT as Im just learning that myself.
But I know when I did my video accessment with my instructor that he didnt like seeing a gap through my legs as I went down the hill. I see this same gap in your second video. This is because your feet are horizontally too far apart. the only time your should see a glimpse of a "gap" should be when your feet are vertically spread apart which you may see a bit of a gap, but not the contineous gap due to a horizontal separation.

There is still a little bit of up movement. I can't quite tell, but it looks like your still more flexed in the turn than in the transition (this is more evident the further down the hill you get),



I noticed that your from Hong Kong. Have you ever skied in Korea? I am going there in a couple of weeks. Im going to Muju, Yongpyong, High 1, and Sungwoo resorts...have you been to any of those?

[carver_hk]

rlspalding - you are right. I am fully aware that I have a very wide stand. I am on my way to narrow it down. that's why my first vid is narrower. But narrowing down seems to bring me an up-move especially when I was straightening my outside leg at the same time after the changeover. The flexed leg you see should be my inside leg. This problem should go away when the wide stand problem is corrected.

Can I ask if the BPSRT should looks like this:

to release use super phantom move
a - flex outside leg
b - allow inside leg to bear some weight
c - body stay no-up/down, let gravity pulls the body downhill.

at engagement
d - pull inside leg backward and close to outside leg
e - tip inside ankle to match outside skis
f - to brush tail or not?
g - create edge angle gradually ?

after engagement
h - long outside leg
i - put most of the weight on outside leg
j - follow the feeling learn from two footed release to complete the turn.
k - i dont know what should i do with the edge angle through out the turn?

I have been to all the resorts you named except High 1, which is quite new. The condition in Korea is mostly hard pack and sometimes icy. But the major problem with Skiing in Korea now is exchange rate that making everything very expensive there.

[milesb]

Carver HK, I don't know how to grab a frame from youtube. But try to picture yourself doing a 180 degree hop turn. You go from one position of static balance to (hopefully )another, with a period of imbalance inbetween. The imbalance is caused by the hop and twisting action. Now as to your skiing in this clip, think of it as just a lesser degree of that hop turn. If I recall correctly, what you were doing in the snowdome was much different, you were in constant dynamic balance. Because you were flexing and tipping instead of extending and twisting.
As for what to do on that slope, my experience is that on a steeper slope, unless I try REALLY hard to get an edge locked carve, I'm going to get a somewhat brushed (I call it skidded) turn, even if I'm doing all the PMTS movements. If I want more skidding, I just keep my stance foot very relaxed in my boot, that keeps the ski from hooking up. Diana told me that's good, but some people need to actively keep the stance ski a little flatter than the tipping ski, so see what works for you. So try just skiiing like you did in the snowdome. And make sure you keep tipping and pulling and flexing all the way through the turn.
BTW, don't get discouraged, it takes alot of practice to make the PMTS moves your default on difficult terrain and conditions.

[Max_501]

Note that when you carve you simply tip one way or annother but for BPST for instance you need to rely on different mecanics.

TDK, what would you say are the different mechanics employed in the BPST versus a PMTS carved turn?

[tdk6]

Note that when you carve you simply tip one way or annother but for BPST for instance you need to rely on different mecanics.

TDK, what would you say are the different mechanics employed in the BPST versus a PMTS carved turn?

I know there is a major dissagrement as to how the skis are first pointing one way and in the next moment they are pointing the other way. I have invented the expression "swing arround". This is where the difference in mechanics lie. Carving is different. You only tip and let the skis take you for a ride, wide r=10m and up and at speeds too fast for even moderate runs. No room for sideways adjustments or pivot angles at the ski/snow interface. Your sideways balancing adjustments are carried out by weight distribution between your legs and upper body movements such as counter balancing etc. Like riding a bike. If you are falling towards the inside you need to shift weight to your outside ski and to counterbalance a bit more. If you drift your turns you can adjust your turning angle by increasing the pivot angle or the rate at which your skis are pivotting (swinging).

From a standstill let your skis swing arround in the oposite direction. This produces a very short radius 180deg turn of maybe less than just one meter at very low speeds, close to a standstill. By linking these relese drills together you pick up some speed and all of a sudden you are starting to feel ski rebound kicking in. Use that ski rebound to lift you up but absorbe it into your legs as in down-unweighting and perform the relese in a somewhat unweighted state of being (easier than from a standstill). Once you master to link such turns continuously you can speak of BPST.

BPST is just a PMTS definition on a short turn that can be used in for instance bumps. In the old days before carving much time was spent teaching people how to ski this way.