The Essentials of Skiing

[Si]

I would be very interested in people comparing and contrasting Harald's book, Essentials of Skiing, with those essentials presented by Bode/McNichol in their video:

http://www.sportskool.com/videos/carving

[h.harb]

There is a big difference, no comparison, I don't agree with what they do on that video. It's far off the mark. That attempt was a publicity gimmick that's not serving anyone. BTW, they hate each other and it?s a big part of why Bode left the team.

And, anyone who thinks they can learn to ski from Bode doesn?t understand skiing.

[HeluvaSkier]

Well Harald, you made short work out of that topic. Next...

[h.harb]

Precisely the intent!

[Si]

Harald,

There are clearly skiers out there trying to rationalize and reconcile what they see in the video with what they know about PMTS. Especially given the credentials of the two people in the video. I certainly am not asking for a recital of all of Essentials and a point by point contrast. However, I think that a concise listing of differences would be helpful in differentiating the approaches for many people. Perhaps not those who regularly visit here but certainly for those who have some interest and drop by occasionally. Also, I am not suggesting that this video is a well defined system of skiing or anything close to it, only that they go over a few simple essentials that may or may not map to the essentials of PMTS.

BTW, I was visiting my kids in Boulder this past weekend and stopped by the Skunk Works on Thursday to say hello. Sorry I didn't catch you.

Best, Si

[milesb]

Si, you are very knowledgeable about PMTS, why don't you have a go at listing the differences for them?

[Si]

Thanks Miles, but I think I'm still just a grasshopper.

[milesb]

Then how do you expect to learn if you don't try to snatch the pebble from Harald's hand?

[h.harb]

Miles posted the exact reason I responded to Si?s original post the way I did. You can take the fundamentals for every Essential, reference my book and apply them to the Bode messages about technique. Quickly you will realize the differences between approaches. Going through that exercise is ultimately more beneficial to you than if I feed the answer. Common educational process.

[Bolter]

This tutorial is a great example of what is wrong with coaching and instruction. None of the advice is without some fault in terminology, meaning, intent, interpretation, practice; it conveys unclear ambiguous difficult to apply info. If you were to do exactly what they are saying- you could not ski, much of it is impossible!

Bode is a great athlete. Why is the coaching so poor? I think I know why but it does not matter to me, unless my son and Club Racers start to hear stuff like that, then it matters. This video may not be a fair representation of USSCA thinking. I know the skills/drills are not worth much. I will re-up my L1 USSCA this season, maybe I can see what the Tech really is.

I bet (hope) there are plenty of coaches that watch this video and hang their head.

This video does not even come close to the Essentials (movements) and associated external cues as laid out by HH.

[Si]

OK, I give up on the original broad question so let me get into a specific one. Ever since I did a few PMTS camp it has been pretty much automatic for me to keep my free foot pulled back (with more recent improvement in keeping both feet pulled back under my hips). I never have anyone comment to me about too much tip lead anymore. In the Bode/Phil video they emphasize creating enough tip lead to permit movement of the hips. I understand that this advice is probably not a good idea for the majority of skiers who may already have too much tip lead. However, I have recently been feeling that perhaps I need to allow a little more tip lead, as this video suggests. Harald, do you ever see this where someone pulls back so much that it blocks hip movements? If I look at your pictures in Essentials and elsewhere I get the feeling that this might just be the case for me.

[Bolter]

I know you are looking for Harald's reply. I don't blame you one bit.

Anyway...
IMO - inside foot pull back is accomplished from the knee down, while that hip is flexing. The counteracting movement is not tied to this. The axis of the counteracting movement (orientation of the torso) can be viewed as the body's central axis- about the spine. Taking human stride mechanics as a way to view counteraction; the axis can be looked at as the head of the stance foot's femur. I think Essentials p.17 lays it out just fine without gait mechanics clouding things up. Comparisons (conclusions drawn) of walking to skiing aren't easy to make and may be of little value.

So . . . pull back does not have to adversely limit the amount of counteraction or necessarily induce Rotation (defined on p.17).

Whatever lead there is, with strong pull back, is a product of counteraction-a leading inside hip.

[HeluvaSkier]

do you ever see this where someone pulls back so much that it blocks hip movements?

Yes. You will often see these kinds of blocking movements in skiers who force themselves to ski too square to the skis, and pull the inside foot back so much that their hip turns toward the hill toward the end of the turn. This completely ignores the kinetic chain (what the body wants to naturally do) and is not PMTS, or good/correct skiing [probably more closely associated with ATS]. Remember counter rotation. if you are properly using counter rotation you should be physically blocked from pulling the inside foot so far back that it hinders your turn (balance, counter balance, outside ski pressure, etc.).

The reason that you hear many coaches harping about pulling the inside ski back is that excessive tip lead is a far more common problem than lack of tip lead (watch any normal skier on the mountain if you doubt this). The goal should be to minimize tip lead in the context of other correct movements. If that requires/creates some tip lead then so-be-it.

Later

GREG

Edit: Bolter and I must have posted at the same time.

[h.harb]

I just got back from skiing, coaching and three hours at my shop. So don't expect too much activity from me these days.

The last few days I've been coaching Jon Olson (X Games mega star) in his comeback attempt for FIS racing.

And you don't really need my response, Bolter and Helluva are doing a helluva job.

I could not have responded more appropriately than Bolter did on the topic of Bode's and McNichol's coaching.

[Si]

Sorry for imposing.