Speed of recreational skiers too high on slopes

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Speed of recreational skiers too high on slopes

Postby h.harb » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:37 pm

A few years ago when I was writing for Skiing Magazine we did a test with a radar gun on the slopes at Winter Park. We were blown away when we noticed the average speed on a Blue run was 30mph. I think it can be said that by today?s standards that has gone up!!

Have you ever run into anything at 30mph? It can kill you.

Should there be something done by the resorts about this?
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Postby 4Slide » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:15 pm

I have mixed feelings about focusing on speed of itself. 20 mph impacts can also be deadly; "safe and prudent" skiing at whatever speed really should be the standard. Less grooming, or changed grooming practices, could help keep speeds down, but the grooming is what people want.
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Re: Speed of recreational skiers too high on slopes

Postby François » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:26 pm

h.harb wrote:Have you ever run into anything at 30mph? It can kill you.


Just potholes. I've had a few encounters with pavement at high speeds. It invariably resulted in broken bones. Hitting something at 30 mph can definitely kill you; hitting a rock face at 30 mph would be like falling onto the pavement from 30 feet in the air.

h.harb wrote:Should there be something done by the resorts about this?


No, other than continuing to promote the skier's code. I'm all for letting skiers take responsibility for their own actions. Speed is part of the excitement of skiing for a lot of people.
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Re: Speed of recreational skiers too high on slopes

Postby Max_501 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:57 pm

Does the skier's code work?
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Re: Speed of recreational skiers too high on slopes

Postby 4Slide » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:24 pm

Max_501 wrote:Does the skier's code work?


The standards work, if adhered to which is the big question. "Smart style" in terrain parks has a lot of self-policing at better parks, and consequently works very well except for families and school groups both of which are oblivious due to their own group dynamics. Given the emphasis on riding an arc in this forum, it is worth noting one aspect of the code that needs practical revision: when carving big arcs and in particular back uphill, imo a skier approaching from above is effectively "downhill" of your line of travel, therefore you both have a responsibility to avoid the other.
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Postby François » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:39 pm

I think a lot of versions of the code have been changed to read
"People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them."
Ahead instead of below. I'm not sure when this change occurred.
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Postby 4Slide » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:42 pm

I guess I actually need to pay more attention to it myself, I didn't know that had changed. :oops: :D
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Postby h.harb » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:11 pm

Francois that is a great point, so few skiers realize the skier ahead has the right of way. I have told that to countless skiers who cut me off coming from behind me, and they look at you like you are stupid.
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Postby Max_501 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:53 am

h.harb wrote:Francois that is a great point, so few skiers realize the skier ahead has the right of way. I have told that to countless skiers who cut me off coming from behind me, and they look at you like you are stupid.


Exactly, I've had the same exchanges with both skiers and boarders. I don't think the skier's code does much as the offenders either haven't read it or don't care about it because its not enforced.
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Postby stikki987 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:31 am

Lack of control and poor judgement should be penalized, not solely speed.

With resorts as crowded as they are unfortunately there isn't space to open it up. The first hour of the day is the golden hour for not only powder but also fast groomers, it's just something I've had to accept.

Now as far as speed ever being safe, none of it is, even 10 mph into a tree or rock sans helmet will most likely be trouble. This is an inherrant risk of the sport.
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Postby Max_501 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:41 am

stikki987 wrote:Lack of control and poor judgement should be penalized, not solely speed.


Without question. However, speed plays an important role in accidents on the hill just as it does in accidents on the road.

stikki987 wrote:Now as far as speed ever being safe, none of it is, even 10 mph into a tree or rock sans helmet will most likely be trouble. This is an inherrant risk of the sport.


That is true, but accepting the risk of running into a tree/rock is a bit different than having to accept the risk of getting hit from behind by someone going too fast and ignoring the skier's code.

If you enjoy going fast then joining the local race club or running Nastar courses when they are up is a great way to do it safely.
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Postby 4Slide » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:13 am

Max_501 wrote:...
That is true, but accepting the risk of running into a tree/rock is a bit different than having to accept the risk of getting hit from behind by someone going too fast and ignoring the skier's code...


If you speed-gun them they may actually be going slower than you even though they "overtake" you. You in many cases are skiing a round line; they are going straight, and in many cases lack the ability to turn quickly in a manner that allows them to turn out of your way if you cross what they see as their "line."

By contrast, due to bad snow early last season I had the experience of sharing an open slope with limited real estate with several different ski academies at the same time, but very few "normal" recreational skiers. While average speeds were quite higher than average, and turn shapes were varying, because everyone was skiing or riding a round-ish turn shape and generally aware that other would be too, and generally alert, things felt pretty calm. (When people do collide at those speeds it can be bad, of course, and there are obviously incidents where racers among others have done this while freeskiing.)

In the first situation of being nailed by a "straightliner" they're normally at fault, but in practical terms to avoid that type of collision you need to be mindful of what's uphill. But then I didn't know the wording to the code had been changed either...so fwiw.
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Postby fisherskionsnow » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:04 pm

Great discussion. I don't worry so much about speed as long as you have control. But I do worry when I see a skier or boarder coming straight down the hill making no turns. The odds of them hitting someone slower or someone in their path is 100 percent.
One area I would like to see is a runs for faster and skilled skiers/boarders and a runs for only slower skiers/boarders. I know we have green runs for beginners or slower skiers but alot of times this is where you will see the out of control individual or the individual who just wants to go straight.
It reminds me of driving down a 2 lane highway, where you have someone going 45mph and someone going 65mph. Sooner or later an accident will happen.
I think in skiing like driving, you have to ski/drive defensively. Being always aware of your surroundings.
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Postby stikki987 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:31 pm

Max_501 wrote:However, speed plays an important role in accidents on the hill just as it does in accidents on the road.


Very true. The margin of error decreases in proportion to the increase in speed, thus the highway safety message of increased following distance with increased speed.
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Postby h.harb » Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:34 pm

Many skiers don't realize how fast they ski. Until you feel contact or see someone contact an immovable object at twenty mph, tehy won't realize the consequences.


In my experience the most reckless are usually those who don?t know what the consequences of a high speed impact are. A straight-liner always feels his space is being infringed upon when a carving skier happens to swoop quickly across the slope into his line. A carving skier is in control and the straight-liner who is above the skier, causes the contact.

How to you regulate that? Sure education and I think more enforcement would help. The slopes are more crowed every year, and now we have more fat, long ski skiers, who don?t like to turn or control speed on Green/Blue runs (especially when they are icy), so they bee line the run, staying near the trees. Very dangerous, I see this all the time.

We had one of our coaches get run into last season while she was standing on the slope in California. She lost a year and has to be concerned that her knee will return to equal function. This just isn?t fair, it results from poor judgment and disregard for people?s safety.

The slope police are absolutely no help. They can?t tell the difference between a skier in control and a run away chuck wagon.
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