tree skiing....

[Ron]

one thing I don't recall seeing discussed is tree skiing. Is there any place I can go to read up on PMTS approach to this? I ahve been skiing trees with the traditional appraoch and I am always looking for a better way.

[Max_501]

one thing I don't recall seeing discussed is tree skiing. Is there any place I can go to read up on PMTS approach to this? I ahve been skiing trees with the traditional appraoch and I am always looking for a better way.

The first thing to consider is the type of snow under the trees. Is it deep powder? Heavy or light? Is it chopped up powder (chowder) or crud? Has it been packed down by thousands of skiers and then refrozen into a choppy boilerplate?

Next to consider is the spacing of the trees.

Based on the answers to those questions you can decide on the proper turn to use. Most of the time I'm relying on the BPST (bullet proof short turn) because the trees I ski are close together.

ACBAES Book 2 has some tree tactics for powder on page 183. BTW, HH mentions that skiing trees in powder is a good place to use wider skis.

[Ron]

thanks MAX, yes I use my Mojo90's for trees and soft crud and broken, I really enjoy trees but since they are require really irregular turn patterns and often include drops and such, I was thinking there might be a different tactic. Typically I use more of a "smearing", controlled skid tactic but you have to stay balanced and ready to turn or stop abruptly to adjust to terrain not immediately visible. Max, what book is that? I take it that's an anacronym? (sp). Thanks for the help!

[4Slide]

http://www.realskiers.com/pmtsforum/vie ... 52&start=0

In terms of releases, flexing to adjust the arc in the bottom half of the turn, funky snow, and so forth, the above thread may have good stuff.

[Ron]

YES! in fact, I guess that's HH's responses loged in a guest, its actually much of what I am doing now. Weight and unweight to initiate, I weight the downhill ski a little bit more than the uphill and I hope I am saying this correctly, Countering with my body letting the skis "slide" around following the path of my body, I am definitely not rotating though. It seems to work well but I do sometimes feel there is too much lag time with my skis, I just don't feel totally comfortable in thos highly variable conditions. BTW- the example of skiing Aspend groved in Steamboat is exactly what I am talking about. "The closets", Shadows, Christmas Trees and that area over by the Chutes into the Meadows. I ski bumps and trees more of the clendenan method letting the skis stay flat and turning with a controled skid.

[Max_501]

Max, what book is that? I take it that's an anacronym? (sp). Thanks for the help!

Anyone Can Be an Expert Skier 2: Powder, Bumps, and Carving (Includes Bonus DVD) (Paperback)

available here:

http://www.amazon.com/Anyone-Can-Be-Expert-Skier/dp/1578261783/ref=sr_1_2/002-7165024-8490417?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183138289&sr=8-2

[Ron]

thanks

[Mac]

Max, haven't you learned your lesson about posting links yet? Oops, I forgot, this isn't Epic, is it. My mistake!

[Mac]

Seriously, though, Ron brings up a good question. I remember reading that same link that you refer to. Seems to me that Harald wrote that quite a while ago. I'm wondering if he has changed his thinking with the introduction of a ski like the Supershape. I don't own a pair (yet), but it seems to me a ski with tip and tail dimensions similar to a powder ski with the manuverability of a slalom ski might work fairly well in the trees.

[Max_501]

Seems to me that Harald wrote that quite a while ago. I'm wondering if he has changed his thinking with the introduction of a ski like the Supershape. I don't own a pair (yet), but it seems to me a ski with tip and tail dimensions similar to a powder ski with the manuverability of a slalom ski might work fairly well in the trees.

I can ski the SuperShape in powder up to 10-12". But anything deeper wants a fatter waist.

[Ron]

Well, I would respectfully disagree that a slalom ski is a good "model" for trees or pow; in the powder in the trees, its much more of a 3 dimensional skiing than pure tipping; its up and down and left to right, its much more finesse (light pressure) and less angulation say 55/45 pressure and skis nearly flat throughout. Less sidecut is actually better, more surface area (think depth; snow contact on skis). In trees that are shoulder width apart and inconsistently spaced with changing pitch, you really have to be in a much more upright position (upper body). You just don't have the space unless you like the taste of bark. As you weight/down pressure (bend at the kness)the ski through the pow, you gently edge both skis as your body counters, the skis will turn and you can moderate the skid to the turn radius needed, as you unweight the skis (stand up) come up go perfectly flat and the pole touch, (the trigger for the next turn initiation) you initiate the next turn. I believe this is much in line with the float concept. This is just how I ski pow and trees. I am just looking for alternate ideas to try. FWIW I own SS's and Mojo90's

[Gary]

Having skied my SS in 10-12 inches of powder as well, I can relate to both what Ron and all are saying here. HH has changed my world of skiing and exposure to terrain I only dreamed about years ago and I'm thankful for that. Thing is, skiing these conditions for me requires soft touch with the skis, using all 4 edges, tipping, but not the high edge angles I use on groomed, broken, or hard snow conditions.
Skiing in the trees that are tight whether on my SS or my 82 requires from my experience, patience, good use of the pole plant, upright stance, float, tipping, and light use of all 4 edges. If those conditions are ice and rock hard....I'm not even in there.

Having a mixed bag of tools in your ski bag with good fundemental PMTS skills I think is key.

[Max_501]

... and skis nearly flat throughout.

!!!!

[Max_501]

As you weight/down pressure (bend at the kness)the ski through the pow, you gently edge both skis as your body counters, the skis will turn and you can moderate the skid to the turn radius needed, as you unweight the skis (stand up) come up go perfectly flat and the pole touch, (the trigger for the next turn initiation) you initiate the next turn.

This movement is the opposite of how we do it in PMTS. In powder we extend into the powder and retract (flex) to get out of it.

[Ken]

Look past the next gap in the trees you'll be skiing through. Decide if you want to hit that gap straight, or arcing right, or arcing left. The basic technique doesn't change, so do your best to always be in balance so you can make an unexpected turn RIGHT NOW! If you're in the habit of using a lot of rotation swinging the outside arm around wrapping it around your body, you'll have a hard time making a quick turn.