GPS systems and skiing

[Mr. T]

I am sure that this topic has been dealt with before. However, I just did a quick search and did not see anything about it recently.

I know a lot of skiers who would love to know about how fast they are going, being able to check the route they skied on a map, perhaps know about their heart rate or the grade of a slope and more...

It seems like Garmin Forerunner 305 and Motion Based software have made all this possible. The Forerunner 305 is really an improvement on the older 301 model, but it comes with an improved GPS chip that is capable of detecting satellite signals better than the 301 model. In addition, the new shape makes it less bulky and the antenna is in a more suitable position than it used to be (although it was more an issue for skaters than skiers or cyclists).

The Motion Based software is pretty much every athlete's dream come true (even those with a little belly like myself ). Once your data is downloaded to your account on Motion Based website (the account is free although in this case it will only allow you to store up to 10 runs) you can actually replay your run on a hybrid map from a satellite view and you can see your speed, your heart rate, your altimetry, the grade of the slope every 3.5 seconds or 1 second, depending on your choice for setting.

I have used it during the Summer training for speedskating and I cannot wait to try it on the slopes while skiing. In addition, unless your runs are declared "private" they can be used by others to ski the same runs or to compare times (although I would think that for skiing it would be a little bit less definitive of a comparison than on skating where trails are very narrow and one has to follow more or less exactly the same path).

Not advertising for Garmin, just thought the tool is worth taking a look at least. Cheers.

[John Mason]

I have the 301 and use it a lot in my running. It does things like tell you your real time pace. You can set warnings to beep you if you are out of a goal heart rate. You can set up a 'virtual' runner and it will tell you how many feet ahead or behine the runner you are which is great for speed work.

I wore it at copper last year. It will record your altitude and speed and heart rate. It's a lot of fun. I never wore it skiing after that. But I use it in most all of my running and biking. (for biking I just strap it on my handle bar)

If you were wanting to track your vertical for a day or compare your heart rate at altitude to some prior heart rate if you have been working on fitness to see where you are at in skiing it might be useful. I stopped wearing mine because frankly at most ski resorts with all the people on the slopes I didn't want the tempting distraction.

[Max_501]

When biking or running in the woods does it keep you from getting lost?

[John Mason]

first - in follage it often won't track. In running it'll short your mileage on trail runs.

But it does have a feature where you can set a point and it'll lead you back to the point and show you direction and distance.

This can be good if your traveling and want to just wander in a run and not ultimately get lost.

[Mr. T]

That's one aspect where the 305 is better than the 301: better reception of signals even in areas which were not ideal for the 301. The chip in the 305 is different from the one used in the 301. The 301 is already an excellent tool, the 305 goes a little bit further.

When using Virtual Partner, the 305 (and the 205 as well) allow a function Course (and the course could be downloaded from a friend's list) so that you can challenge him or her. The main difference in using Course as opposed to fixing a distance and a time is that the comparison between you and the course is done on a real basis and not just based on the average speed. For example, if you want to run 10 miles in 1 hour, every time you fall below 10mph you will fall behind in the the virtual partner game, not so in "Course" since it compares you to an actual run and takes into consideration that some segments of road are going uphill, others downhill, etc..

But, truly it is only when using a Forerunner with Motion Based that the game becomes really amazingly interesting.

If you ski off bound and you have a memorable run, for example, you can download that run to your computer and then through the Motion Based software you can have it mapped on a Google-like map and see the animation of your descent with the varying speed, heart rate, grade, etc... Lots of fun.

And, other users can download your map and ski the same route for example. Or so could you with routes chosen by other skiers.

[j.clayton]

Hey , what about the old fashioned exhilaration meter ! I went so fast my hair stood on end ! Does the Garmin measure "G" forces as well ?

[John Mason]

the 301 doesn't measure g's that I'm aware of. And I wear a helmet so my 'g - wiz' meter doesn't operate correctly.

A-basin opened today? If so they beat loveland. Is that the first time they ever beat loveland?

[j.clayton]

John , I wear a helmet too but I have a couple of holes so my antennae can stick out .

[Mr. T]

Hey , what about the old fashioned exhilaration meter ! I went so fast my hair stood on end ! Does the Garmin measure "G" forces as well ?

How about if one does not have hair? That is why Garmin is in business. Plus, could you quantify how fast is "so fast that my hair stood on end!". Could be just a big scare and no real speed. I still think the Forerunner is a better tool than your hair

[j.clayton]

Aha , the subjective / objective debate , your'e opening a philosophical can-o-worms here Mr T

[François]

I have a Garmin GPS MAP76 CS

http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap76cs/spec.html

It seems pretty accurate, but the fastest output is 1 point per second, so the points can be pretty far apart. The point tp point data doesn't show the detail of the terrain i would like, nor the actual curved paths taken, unless I slow down.....A LOT.
What software do you use with the forerunner, and can it be used with data from a 76?. I've just used mapsource with mine. Google Earth view of your tracks is cool, but the resolution is a bit sketchy.

[Mr. T]

Search on the web for Motion Based... they list what products can be interactive. I doubt that you will ever get any product to do better than one measure per second. However, I use a measurement every 3.5 seconds and it follows the route on a hybrid satellite map very well. My use so far has been predominantly for inline skating and even the speed measured were accurate and so was the path despite I can skate at over 40kmh (23 mph). I even tested it inside my car at 70mph! . Anyway, if you check the Motion Based site you will see that they have a Player. That function does very well to study your run using an animation. Do you really expect the map to be a perfect reproduction within inches of your route while skiing? Tough

[NoCleverName]

If I'm not mistake, that fine Mr. T is referring to: http://www.motionbased.com .

They seem to recommend/support the 205, 305, and 60CSx, only. Looking at the 205/305 in the store, it's hard to see how they would fit over typical ski cloths, but maybe. And if I remember the specs on the 60CSx, it's not rated below zero F.

All-in-all, unless you are a rich playboy/girl (which all PMTS skiers deserve to be ) it seems that GPS just for ski alone is a bit pricey, so you need to justify it for other activities first.

For pure location-finding, I think Moto makes a handheld radio that also contains a GPS with transmission-to-your-buddy feature --- great when you're trapped in a tree well.

Update: I notice Garmin sells for $15 a larger, velcro-based strap for the 205/305.

[John Mason]

the 301 came with the extension strap. I wonder if it comes with the 305 and is listed seperatly in case you lose yours?

[Mr. T]

The 305 came with two straps (at least in my case and I paid $285 with S&H). They are not like those for the xx1 products. The xx5's are more like watches and they use rubber bands. My longer band fits over my ski jacket, I tried. And I am "thicker" than the average skier. Of course if one skis with 3 garnments under the jacket then it might be a different issue.

As far as temperature goes, I cannot say I tested previous models in all conditions, but they work in a reasonable range of those. Garmin says that it is meant to work from -4F to 140F, so versatile enough.