humans vs robots

[mortimer]

This may have been said here before, but thought I'd add too it! I've never been a big fan of the PSIA technique, it seems to make skiing more complicated than it needs to be, not to mention looks robotic - I'm sure you know what I mean. Should there be more concern for "consistent edge angles" and "consistent stance width," or for stronger, dynamic, (human) SKIING? After learning to ski on 205cm slalom skis my father had to revamp his skiing when shaped skis came out (he was still doing alll the work). He got his instruction through PSIA and honestly, his head near exploded from their instruction.

I'm looking forward to reading your book and working towards skiing like Harb. Keep up the great skiing!

Dont want to cause any trouble in the PSIA/PTMS world, just saying I think one makes more sense than the other. My measly 2 cents. Let's go skiing!

[John Mason]

I like 'golf cart' personnally though I think witherall was the originator of that phrase in this context. Robotic is a good term.

PMTS leads to very dynamic skiing. Also it has a very natural and efficient look coming down the hill.

Most people that post here learned the other way first then came to PMTS often with years (sometimes decades) of frustration.

Welcome to the forum - and I just drove home with snowflakes here in Indiana at 41 degrees. Nothing is sticking, but we are already getting our first snow here. Makes me really want to get back out there! Loveland next week anyone?

[Harald]

Someone told me that PSIA or at least the Epic, PSIA gang, I don?t really know the difference, if there is one, is all excited about this little skiing figure made of metal that has shaped skis attached. Do they call it PSIA man?

It?s supposed to ski itself down a soft, cloth material slope. Has anyone seen it? I understand the excitement for PSIA is based on the fact that ?PSIA Man? is supposed to demonstrate their idea of skiing.

I though that?s where we were going with the robot idea.

[Harald]

Mortimer, welcome and don't worry about any trouble between PSIA/PMTS, it started a long time ago, it's not world hunger.

[Mac]

Yeh, I've seen it, but don't ask me to try and explain it. It was surprising to me how much attention was paid to a silly little stick figure, but there may have been something to learn there by people that are a lot smarter than I am that I just didn't get.

[John Mason]

http://ourworld.cs.com/BBRNZ/PSIMAN01.wmv

The robot is called psiaman

As the movie states weight shift is not required.

Here is the link to the thread in context.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.ph ... ight=robot

The robot does look and demonstrate many of the key aspects our local ski club was shown by a PSIA III cert fresh from the national meeting 2 falls ago on a ski deck at a ski store in Chicago.

The key things were:

1. wide stance for a stable platform (no balancing skills required)
2. point the knees for edging
3. this is how top racers ski thus we should ski this way

In the thread if a person cares to go there, the robot is billed as a great teaching tool for intermediate skiers.

For the new people to the forum, the above points have nothing to do with PMTS. In fact knee pointing in any way either directly done or as a result of steering applied to a ski in a carve is viewed as potentially dangerous to the knee.

Again welcome to the forum Mortimer. I hope this answers any questions about the 'bot.

[Harald]

John, thanks for the links to the piece on PSIA man. I have seen a similar model demonstrated at the International Congress of Skiing and Science, by Fischer ski company.

It is interesting to me that the PSIA would use a model like this to demonstration their meaning of skiing technique. How much more obvious can you make it that they don?t understand skiing. It is clear from the video, that the model changes angles because the center of mass swings towards the lower ski as the bottom of the turn is finishing. So if we were to apply that to humans it would mean that we?d have to be skiing with our shoulders between our knees, and swinging them back and forth every time there was an edge change needed. I thought humans had mass above the waist. If you swing your upper body mass, you will be down.

It doesn?t surprise me that PSIA, doesn?t take into account that this could be a problem with their teaching system or the way they demonstrate their teaching system. From the little video clip, I see the names of the individuals in and PSIA that put this together, they are clearly implicated as the producers of that video.

Although you listed three "beliefs" (don't worry PSIA doesn't rely on science or fact) PSIA derives from watching and interpretating the PSIA man model, the first two are correct for the model, but not for real skiers. The third is a joke, as no PSIA instructor can judge World Cup skiing.

I am also not surprised to see that they are excited about a model that has no bearing on the human body, how it works, the dynamics or biomechanics of skiing. It validates everything about PSIA?s understanding of ski technique that I have said for the past 10 years or more. ?A failing system with a back door for every misrepresentation and they have numerous misrepresentations."

[onyxjl]

That little guy does have crazy little toe edge of the inside ski balance. He is the weighted release master.

[John Mason]

so Harald? Does this mean you have high speed internet finally?

Or were you really patient enough to let the little robot load?

btw - looks like 2 weeks of december out your way !! I so can't wait.

[Mr. T]

This "skier" is all legs and no upper body... Never saw a student taking a class built that way. And PSIA gave him a Silver pin?! That group is getting weirder and weirder. Now a toy becomes their teacher and it does not even have a head! No head and all pin....

[Harald]

Lost his Head and went away with a pin, kind of sums up the story of ski instruction. Nicely done.

[Harald]

Yes, John I finally have high speed, in August. I can't beleive all the video stuff I was missing.

We will be streaming PMTS lessons from the HarbSkiSystems site and you will be able to download PMTS video to your iPod before too long.

Ski lessons on the web are here.

[dewdman42]

Glad to hear this news