rotational foot alignment?

PMTS Forum

rotational foot alignment?

Postby hayduke » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:19 pm

I have noticed that my knee alignment is improved by externally rotating the foot in bicycling. I have heard that a few boots (atomic? fischer?) do this . Any comments from the experts? Thank you.
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:59 pm

We must consider the kinetic chain and biomechanics

Postby Harald » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:15 am

This is an interesting question, and as many answers to alignment situations, you must consider more than just one aspect of the relationship between foot rotation, knee alignment and edge angles.

Much of what you acheive in cycling by rotating the foot is not the same thing as what happens in ski boots or in nominal stance. In a cycling shoe you are not affecting the whole foot and losing structional ridigity of the foot by rotating it. The forefoot is the only part in contact with the peddle, and the shoe holds the foot rigid as you press down on the peddle, for most feet.

In ski boots the whole foot including the heel has to be held stable as the ski has leverage under and behind the foot. Biomechanically the foot pronates more (has more range of motion available) when the toes are pointed out or abducted. Notice how when we at Harb Ski Syatems do an alignment assessment, we measure the ab-ducted stance as well as when the foot is in neutral stance.

We hold the opinion that the Fischer boots for example do not acheive the results as you see on a bike peddle, when you turn the foot, toes to the outside. The Fischer boot does not take into consideration the pronation or added eversion available when the foot is in this position.

We have measured and worked with athletes testing this boot. One skier is a US Ski Team member. We noticed through on snow movement comparison that the Fisher boot made the skier more knock kneed. Now Fisher maybe be thinking this is a good thing as many WC skiers are very bow legged and have rigid feet. The problem here is that not all feet and alignments are the same.

I recently had a discussion with a Salomon boot tech. He was under the impression that we set one of his athletes up bow legged, in her new boots. In fact, we set the athlete exactly the same way she was set up the year before, when she had her best results. With the previous year boot set-up we gave her, she made the US ?B? Team.

This present season, we set her up the same way, we did this in the summer, just before she left for Europe for training. Unfortunately, the boot model had changed enough from the previous year that it made her more bow legged then before. I did not know this when I did the set up, as we had not worked with this boot before. The coaches and the tech did not notice this was the issue, even after three months of training through the summer and fall.

When this athlete came back to the US for December Nor Am races, I took one run of her skiing on video at the race and with it, I was able to see that see was bowed. I immediately called her father and suggested that he make the contacts to have things changed. He told me that the reps were in conflict with alignment understanding and did not want to interfere with any alignment.

The Salomon boot tech didn't understand that his own boots were different enough from his previous model that it became a problem, and the US ski team coaches didn't notice that this was a fix that was needed to be done and it was only a two minute fix.

My point here is that the boot techs and the coaches do not always see the on snow needs for alignment. At Harb Ski Systems we try to always get both the indoor alignemt and at least video of skiers to fine tune aligment.

Unfortunately, even when coaches do see that there is something wrong, they don't know enough to detect and correct. If I don't see the skier on snow, especially a highly developed skier like a Ski Team racer, fine tuning in new boots is tough. I can only make the adjustment based on indoor measurements, especially in the summer.

If the boots look the same as the previous models, on initial inspection, but actually have some minor changes in plastic hardness or width; this can change the positive engagement of the edges.
Unfortunately the people working with the athletes don't know these details and don't investigate the changes enough to detect alignment fine tuning changes needed. These people are with the athletes every day, yet they don't have a method with which they can make and understand adjustments.

Therefore; we work with boots we know and if we don't know them, we try (if at all possible) to ski with the skiers who are using new boots.

In a final note, the Nordica race boot, the 150, which also has the foot pointed to the outside, in it they made adjustments with the side wall of the boot, so they control pronation of the foot. So this boot does make you more bow legged, which is totally differnt form the Fischer boot. This boot comes close to makig the same changes to your leg alignemnt that your bike shoe rotation does, as mid-foot and heel pronation are controlled.

I hope this helps, if you have questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
"Maximum Skiing information, Minimum BS
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Dumont

Postby hayduke » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:47 pm

thank you so much for your complete answer. hope to see you in nov. cheers
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:59 pm

Return to Primary Movements Teaching System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests