What's a beginner to do?

[claybaker]

Hi all.
First, this is my first post. I have been lurking here pretty much since I purchased Harald's first book (I now have them all and the DVDs). I started skiing with my son about 4 years ago when he took up boarding. I also have Lito's books and tapes as well as a few assorted others. I have had good luck with PMTS over the past 2 years and while not a expert by any stretch of the imagination, I can ski the blues okay. I lurk over at Epic as well.

As a beginner (or a low intermediate) I look at the discussion here and feel that I am being asked to make a choice that I don't think I'm qualified to make. The decision I think I am being asked to make is to either embrace PMTS (of which there is only one instructor within 3 hours of me here on the east coast) and ditch the "traditional" teachings of the other organization (for which I can get instruction just about everywhere) or visa versa.

I have pretty much cast my lot with PMTS and have had good success, but at times, I guess I am weak and have doubts. These usually come after I have spent time reading the Holy Wars either here or on Epic. Not being able to necessarily understand all of the technical posts, it's sometimes difficult for a beginner (at least this begginer) to say "Ah Ha! This is the system for me".

I guess I am looking for some reassurance that I've made the right decision, and that I will be able to progress to a somewhat proficient level by using Harald's (and Lito's) books (since it's unlikely I will visit Whitetail or Bryce for an actual PMTS lesson). Mind you I'm not looking to be the next Grandpa Bodie , but I would like to be able to go pretty much where ever I choose (on-piste). Heck, there's not even a bump run at my home area.

I welcome any feedback, and I do appreciate all of the information available on this site.

Clay

[milesb]

If you haven't already, get the PMTS instructor manual, it will answer just about any question you could have. Make sure you do all the exercises in the books, even if you don't think they apply to you. If possible, get someone to take video of you and post it here. Then you can get feedback on whether you are doing the movements correctly. If you are trying to learn PMTS, taking lessons from a non-PMTS instructor is a waste of your time and money.

[claybaker]

Thanks for the quick reply. I saw people reference the instructor's manual here, but I guess I assumed it was for, well, instructors. Where can I get one?

Thanks again,
Clay

[Magyar]

Video is a great suggestion. I found out this year that what you think you are doing and what you are really doing (perception versus reality) can be huge! The first time I saw myself ski I was shocked at some of the stuff I was doing. Milesb is correct, don't skip anything. I did, it does not work. I am having to go back to square one and really master each exercise. I was fortunte in March to spend time with Rich Messer, one of PMTS's finest. Now I finally understand what has to happen and why the exercises are very important. So do them all. BTW, I have all the material as well and have been a long time lurker. I am trying to come out of the lurker closet. Good luck!

[claybaker]

Thanks Magyar, I'll definately think of doing it this year. I did find the order page for the Instructor's manual on Harbskisystems.com, so I'm good to go there...

Clay

[Magyar]

I forgot. Check out the 15 minute Harald video on upper and lower body coordination if you haven't already. It is some of the best stuff I have ever seen. It really ties some of the book stuff together.

http://www.web.pdx.edu/~petersj/Skills/Lessons.htm

[Mac]

I think a lot depends on what your goals are. If you are just looking to be able to get around the mountain, to keep up with your family and friends, then traditional ski schools will probably fill your needs. There are an awful lot of people on the slopes that don't want to put in the time and effort to be great skiers. They just want to go out and ski a handful of days a season and have fun. I believe that this is the typical ski school customer. However, if you are looking to become a strong tecnical skier, than your local ski school is probably not the way to go. As soon as my kids were out of the house and the mortgage was paid off, I finally had the time to dedicate to skiing 35 days per season, and I wanted to be the best I could be. I took a lot of ski lessons, and didn't get much out of them. I'm not saying that there aren't any good instructors out there, there certainly are, but I find the present teaching system in the majority of ski schools is pretty inconsistent. Ski equipment has changed tremendously over the last decade, and it seems to me that traditional ski teaching systems have been very slow to adapt. I was first attracted to Lito's Breakthrough on Skis video, and then to Harald's books and videos mainly because they just made sense to me. They give you a solid platform of basic fundamentals and a progressive plan to build on, something that I found lacking in traditional ski lessons. I have skied with other skiers that have made a tremendous amount of progress in a relatively short amount of time by attending Harald's camps. If you are having trouble findind a PMTS instructor in your area, and you are serious about improving your skiing, than in my opinion it would be well worth your time and effort to attend one of Harald's numerous camps.

[Max_501]

All I can tell you is it worked for me. I'm a PMTS student that learned PMTS from the books for about 4 years and then decided I wanted to take the next step and spent some time with SkierSynergy and Harald Harb.

I find video to be a big help as well. Being able to see what I'm doing (right and wrong) keeps me from doing the wrong movement over and over again. I try to get some video a few times a year. I'd actually like it even more often.

Here's some shots you may have seen already.

Me following in Harald's tracks (five years ago I wouldn't have believed it if you had told me I'd be able to ski behind HH one day and actually have a chance of staying in his tracks).



And here I am running the brushy course...again five years ago if you told me I'd be able to make a turn like this I would have laughed.



I got here because of PMTS. BTW, it does take time, practice, and patience to become a good skier.

[John Mason]

this will help too

In the race camp posts, I have a link to some pics I took. The 2nd to the last pic once you have it displayed links to a video of Harald doing the brushies.

It helps a lot to know if you made the right decision to ski with the people of the different ski philosophies. Harald is one of the best skiers you will have ever seen or skied with.

On a bio-mechanical level, sking with active musculer control over your hip rotator's vs leaving them locked and tweaking what your whole system indirectly using the Kinetic chain is basically the foundational difference of the PSIA (active steering/rotation in the hip rotators) and PMTS (co-contracted hip rotators - locked). This is hardly ever talked about, but when you get passed all the fluff that's the key bottom line difference but it's a huge difference.

Many high end PSIA skiers will say or teach their PSIA certs at instructor conferences that there is no kinetic chain. Well, they can't feel the action of HH's or Lito's phantom move / phantom edging because their hip rotators are not co-contracted.

(and the above is 2nd hand information from a day of skiing with a PSIA III cert that had a battle with the examiner on this very issue in one of the PSIA divisions)

Anyway - check out the race camp review posts and find mine with the picture links and the last two links are movies - 2nd from the last is Harald skiing. And, he skies like this (smooth, in control, balanced) on everything. In bumps, over ridges, crud, powder, etc. It's why he made the PSIA demo team without ever being in PSIA. (he used to run a race camp in Alaska and they convinced him to try out for the demo team out of the blue. That race program turned out Tommie Moe btw.)

You might want to look into going to a blue camp at Solvista if you could ever swing it. It sounds ideal for firming up what you know and would be a ton of fun. Solvista is empty of people (I've heard - still never been there myself) which would make the learning environment ideal.

[claybaker]

Thanks guys, this was just the kind of reassurance I needed .

Mac, while my goal is to get around the mountain, I am the kind of person who needs to know why I'm doing something and it has to make sense to me - I think that's why I couldn't put Harald's first book down. I have been hitting the slopes about 10 days a year for the past few years, but decided that since my son and I only have a few more years left before he's off to college that we would take the plunge and get a condo up at Timberline, WV. I hope to get at least 30 days in this year (if the weather on the east coast cooperates)

Max, I must be where you were 5 years ago. I still struggle sometimes and wonder if I'll ever get to the point where I could be considered an "expert". And to be honest, as long as I could get around the mountain okay I wouldn't be crying in my beer if I didn't get there. Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up in any way, shape or form, but as you said in your post - I just don't see it right now.

Thanks for the encouragement!
Clay

[Mac]

Even more reason to attend one of Harald's camps. It sounds to me like you have the desire and determination to be a good skier. Why take ten years to learn what you could learn in two? Seriously, I have seen some of Harald's skiers that have only been skiing for five years that are better skiers than some people that I ski with that have been skiing regularly for 18+ years. It's very difficult to learn much in a two hour ski lesson, you can only absorb so much, a tip here and there, but not enough to make a major breakthrough in your skiing. And the next time you go to take a lesson, the instructor really doesn't know you, doesn't know where your previous instructor left off, and may have a totally new bag of tricks that may just contradict what you were previously taught. And the cost of a camp is very reasonable compared to the price of lessons these days. Don't make the mistake of floundering around for ten years like I did. If it means that much to you, and it sounds like it does, than it's worth the effort.