MA Request (video)

PMTS Forum

MA Request (video)

Postby doublediamond223 » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:57 pm

I was wondering if I could get an MA. I am not looking to start a flame war.


http://nnskiing.org/Arc-y Sparky.avi
http://nnskiing.org/Arc-y Sparky Slomo.wmv


http://nnskiing.org/Arc2 slomo.wmv
http://nnskiing.org/Arc2.avi



These are links to the files, I reccomend downloading them outright. Sorry about the size, I wanted to keep the quality. It doesn't auto-hyperlink all of the text for some reason, so you'll need to paste it into your browser.
doublediamond223
 

Postby john heath » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:34 am

this post is intended to make sure we don't get in any pmts-psia battles.

someone better qualified will give you MA, I'm still just trying to get the hang of it myself, but the post looks suspicious because you have not taken part in any discussion before, just rocked up and dropped some film in on the same day as joining. most people who do that do seem to want to start a war. on the other hand maybe it is genuine so i hope you get some good replies.

If you are not trying to start a flame war, be prepared for some stuff that will contradict the coach on the videos on your team's website in just about all the points he makes, apart from avoiding knee angulation and a low hip (he doesn't talk about how to get the hip low, so that will be different too).
the 'gorilla turns' he talks about and demonstrates are the complete opposite of what harb coaches (and what the austrian commentators talked about during the olympics by the way. often they talk about different things to hh but they praised any slalom skier who had very little up and down movement, he's not the only one advocating as lateral a movement of the centre of mass as you can get.)
The chances are the skiing of your coach will be described as inefficient, maybe blunter terms will be used. this is because almost everything he describes is taken in PMTS to be inefficient. yes, you've requested we look at your skiing but it is relevant to address the coaching you have had so you can see where PMTS is coming from.
a lot of people come here and then cut up when the advice they get differs from the coaching they've had previously. presumably you've posted because you'd like a different take on skiing. you will certainly get one.
I hope this might prepare you for the advice you will receive and pave the way for anyone who wants to do MA to just get on with it.
john heath
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:44 am
Location: austria

Postby Max_501 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:46 am

The videos are also posted on Epic for MA. I think its interesting to see the differences in opinion that the different camps see. But it would be nice if it didn't turn into flame war like the last time.
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4084
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Postby violao » Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:23 am

ssh is coordinating that thread and after reading some of his posts here and there I feel pretty confident that he is not the type that would post on the other site (or anywhere else) that this site sucks, like the other guy did.
violao
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:08 am
Location: Croatia

Huh?

Postby Ott Gangl » Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:55 am

>>> but the post looks suspicious because you have not taken part in any discussion before, just rocked up and dropped some film in on the same day as joining.<<<

Boy, if this isn't the height of paranoia...

....Ott
Ott Gangl
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:16 pm
Location: Ohio, USA via Bavaria

Postby Harald » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:12 am

My policy is, I will help people with their skiing from video on this site if they include their real name, an e-mail address and some comments about what they are trying to achieve with their skiing.

It is just courteous and polite to identify yourself if you are honestly looking for coaching that will be taken seriously.

Anyone who has found anything to do with waist steering as beneficial I already have some idea about their understanding of skiing.

Waist steering is the most absurd thing I?ve ever heard and it fits right in there with Al Hobart?s gorilla skiing. These are not techniques, they are gimmicks. If you watched the slalom men and women in the Olympics and saw anything that has anything to do with waist steering or gorilla turns, you are on the wrong track and you will damage your progress while ruining your skiing.

Everything the skiers were doing in the Olympics is demonstrated in PMTS and good skiing.
"Maximum Skiing information, Minimum BS
Harald
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Dumont

Postby doublediamond223 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:44 am

john heath wrote:this post is intended to make sure we don't get in any pmts-psia battles.

someone better qualified will give you MA, I'm still just trying to get the hang of it myself, but the post looks suspicious because you have not taken part in any discussion before, just rocked up and dropped some film in on the same day as joining. most people who do that do seem to want to start a war. on the other hand maybe it is genuine so i hope you get some good replies.

If you are not trying to start a flame war, be prepared for some stuff that will contradict the coach on the videos on your team's website in just about all the points he makes, apart from avoiding knee angulation and a low hip (he doesn't talk about how to get the hip low, so that will be different too).
the 'gorilla turns' he talks about and demonstrates are the complete opposite of what harb coaches (and what the austrian commentators talked about during the olympics by the way. often they talk about different things to hh but they praised any slalom skier who had very little up and down movement, he's not the only one advocating as lateral a movement of the centre of mass as you can get.)
The chances are the skiing of your coach will be described as inefficient, maybe blunter terms will be used. this is because almost everything he describes is taken in PMTS to be inefficient. yes, you've requested we look at your skiing but it is relevant to address the coaching you have had so you can see where PMTS is coming from.
a lot of people come here and then cut up when the advice they get differs from the coaching they've had previously. presumably you've posted because you'd like a different take on skiing. you will certainly get one.
I hope this might prepare you for the advice you will receive and pave the way for anyone who wants to do MA to just get on with it.


Wow, I'm surprised someone took the time to explore my website. I agree that Hobart is not the model for what one should aspire to in modern skiing. He has a very significant a-frame, and that is not what I aim to have in my skiing. I posted that because my coach asked me to, not because I think it is especially notable.

As I said, I am not looking to start a flame war as my friend heluva did. I am open to any opinion regarding my skiing, and am prepared for the likeliness that any commentary will probably be different than what I have heard before, on epic or elsewhere.

I didn't think I really needed to spend much time explaining myself, since many of you lurk or cross-post on epic. My name is Greg Stephanos, email is gwstephanos@sbcglobal.net, and AIM is gstoof5600. How's that?

I am a semi-serious racer who obsesses about technique. The turns in these videos are sl-ish, and my main goal in them was to show good angles. I know that I have some steering in the high-c phase, which is completely contrary to what you guys teach. I am on badly tuned metron b5 demos in a 172, and dobie 150s. The conditions are on medium hardpack in Vail. I just want to improve my turns, since I am not actively racing anymore, at least for now.

I don't want to fight about waissteering. I skied with Rick in Colorado and can say that he is a really nice guy, great skier, and great coach. He definitely helped me, that much I can say. Much of what he taught me, I later found out, were drills advocated by Phil McNichol of the US Ski team in a pamphlet given to me by some j3 coach on the golden peak quad at vail. We didn't spend much time on acutal waissteering, as Rick said in the epic thread. I know that he, and his pupil heluva (greg) have been banned from this forum, and I do not wish to follow them in this.

violao wrote:ssh is coordinating that thread and after reading some of his posts here and there I feel pretty confident that he is not the type that would post on the other site (or anywhere else) that this site sucks, like the other guy did.


I can't tell if you are saying if you have read my posts on epic or ssh's, but I encourage people to read mine on epic to gain an understanding of my personality. I tend to not have an "edge" like heluva does, although we do talk a lot.
Last edited by doublediamond223 on Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
doublediamond223
 

Postby dewdman42 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:46 am

I, for one, would really like t hear feedback about this video clip. I hope someone qualified about PMTS will comment..
dewdman42
 
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:52 pm

Postby NancyH » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:18 pm

I don'd understand? Doublediamond asks for feedback about his skiing
and some people assume he is trolling. It takes some guts to post
videos of your own skiing, knowing that it will be analyzed by a variety
of people. There was nothing in doublediamond's post that was in any way
suggestive of some motive other than requesting feedback about his skiing. What's the deal?
NancyH
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:40 pm

Postby Harald » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:20 pm

DD, I appreciate your candor, thank you for responding. I have not been to your web site or to Epic. What I gathered is from other posts here.

A little history first, I have known Al Hobart personally for at least thirty years. I coached at Stratton Mt School and was Head Coach of the Nor Am and FIS groups there in the seventies while Al was founding Green Mt School. He was never the coaching force at Green Mt. He was the founder, the money guy. Al always hired good coaches and often brought Austrian coaches to his staff. He never skied or had an understanding at a level that would merit his input on your skiing or coaching. His Gorilla turn approach, demonstrates where his knowledge is in skiing, no more need be said.

Concerning Phil McNichol, I don?t know him, but I know what?s going on within the US Team. His technique approaches are not that insightful. As far as conveying technique or technique changes, he has yet to link up or make strong connections to the skiers. This is obvious by the lack of results at the Olympics. In big events you need someone coaching who has been in big events as a competitor. You don?t need the cheer leading at the start that we heard on TV. No one at that level is motivated by screaming at the start. This approach demonstrates the immaturity and lack of internal confidence of the coaches and their approaches.

Just because you are a US Team coach, it doesn?t mean you automatically become an authority or have great coaching skills. I know and have known most of the coaches on the staff. I do respect some of the coaches and some of the previous coaches, but not all have the answers or are influential with the athletes. They have a title, which most people believe makes them instant authorities on the subject of skiing and ski coaching. Remember some have been football coaches and baggage carries that have worked themselves through the system and don?t have much ski racing or teaching background.


DD, I was able to watch only one of your skiing clips, as I have very slow internet access. I could not achieve viewing of the other clips.

The slope I saw you skiing on was moderate terrain. Your skiing shows many of the movements I would call, in the correct direction. It really depends on your understanding of which movements you have that are good and which movements you are trying to discard, as to the advances you will make in the future. You are trying to flex to release the stance leg, that?s a good movement. You are controlling upper body rotation, in the upper third of the turn, yet through the turn you are rotating the upper body faster then the skis are coming around the turn. This puts you square or facing the skis near the end of the turns before the release. I see some softness in your edging capability, I suggest your boot set up can be enhanced.

Although you make a carved turn and you do often get upside down in the transition, which is very good, after the initial engagement I see you are gradually losing pressure rather then building pressure, to the release. This is demonstrated by your upper body leaning away from the stance ski and some push off on the stance, big toe edge at the end of the turn, to help move you into the next turn.

One suggestion is to have the alignment checked and possibly move your knee closed to center on the boot. Because the upper body is leaning toward the inside of the turn, as the turn nears the most loaded phase, you lose ski rebound performance or snap out of the turn. In some cases your release is achieved by falling toward the inside ski. This causes loss of balance toward the inside ski prematurely and therefore a step off of the stance ski is used to exit the turn. This is apparent when your inside ski goes flat at the end of the turn before the CG moves toward the new turn.

These are refinements, not necessary wrong skiing. I think you definitely have possibilities for performance improvement without much change in your basic movements, as you are showing good athletic capabilities. I?m sorry I couldn?t be more definite or specific, as I only have one clip and the slope is slightly slanted. I would put you on a slope where your technique would come into question, so you could see where and how certain changes would make real improvements.

My philosophy in ski coaching is to teach the movements that are technically essential first. These are the movements that are often more difficult and require discipline to learn. I am referring to counter balance, staying countered, shortening or bending the stance leg to release and extending to build pressure. The upper body movements are only to co-ordinate with the foot tipping actions. The upper body is there to support balance and stack, to store the building forces. The upper body must be in place to help or assist in balancing and building pressure. If upper body movements are the cause of pressure and balance losses, this must be addressed.

I would begin by finding out what your understanding is about what you are trying to accomplish. I would discuss with any skier I?m coaching what movements they are using to accomplish what they think they are trying to achieve. It is absolutely imperative that any coach understand the thinking of the skier. After that I would demonstrate the advantages and disadvantages to certain movements. I would first address the movement that is causing the greatest energy loss and then move on to refine the overall stability and balance of the body over the feet.

Your technique has some leaking of energy to the stance ski, as the turn progresses. This is demonstrated even in free skiing. When your technique is put under pressure (gates, or difficult terrain) these technique imperfections, which may seem to be minor miscues in free skiing, will become major detractors under pressure. You have the opportunity to make big improvements. I hope if you pursue coaching, that you get headed in the right direction, you have the potential for much higher levels of skiing. Good luck.
"Maximum Skiing information, Minimum BS
Harald
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Dumont

Postby dewdman42 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:53 pm

Harald, your detection skills are truly amazing.

Thanks for giving us that feedback...
dewdman42
 
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:52 pm

Where is that web site?

Postby Ott Gangl » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:27 pm

Everyone talks about DD's web site but I can't seem to find a link to it here.

....Ott
Ott Gangl
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:16 pm
Location: Ohio, USA via Bavaria

Postby violao » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:07 pm

Based on Harald's comments about upside-down skiing I believe he watched the longer video. While I watched the other video I couldn't help seeing some things that I don't think exactly fit the PMTS way of skiing. Since I am not really qualified to comment or give advices on PMTS I would phrase my view in terms of questions for DD, like "why are you doing this". In order to do that I need to post some images I cut from the clips to show you what exactly I am talking about and before that I would like to ask DD's permission to post those images.
violao
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:08 am
Location: Croatia

Postby violao » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:09 pm

Ott, I think they referred to this: http://nnskiing.org/index.html
violao
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:08 am
Location: Croatia

Postby Harald » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:44 pm

Dewdman, thanks for the comments and your PM.

Patience Nancy, response to posts over here happen in an orderly, thought out manner. Welcome to the site, I hope you find what you are looking for.

Ott, remember, just becasue you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
Last edited by Harald on Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Maximum Skiing information, Minimum BS
Harald
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Dumont

Next

Return to Primary Movements Teaching System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest