MA from Luke

Re: MA from Luke

Postby lukezhang » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:17 pm

Right, I will probably not get what I want from this forum here. I may just stop posting.

Here is the slow mo that you cannot view from the full speed video.


Yes, I am releasing with rotation and without tipping. Here is my hip CA before release compared with yours. I don't want to pick on you. But I just felt missing respect.
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Re: MA from Luke

Postby noobSkier » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:38 pm

Yes, I am releasing with rotation and without tipping. Here is my hip CA before release compared with yours. I don't want to pick on you. But I just felt missing respect.


I have to come to ErikCO's defence here. He's skiing at a quarter of your speed...exponentially more difficult! He's demonstrating appropriate speed for you. ErikCO is a far more accomplished skier than you are and if he wanted to blow your skiing out of the water, he would have posted a real "show-off" clip. Im sure ErikCO would agree that he has work to do in the CA/CB department (he said so himself), but disingenuous and cherry-picked screen shots are contrary to the spirit of the MA section.

I hate to see this thread degenerate like this, but you have in no way been disrespected by other members, despite the fact that there is nothing about your skiing that warrants respect.

http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2840
Last edited by noobSkier on Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MA from Luke

Postby lukezhang » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:04 pm

Fairly enough. I will shut up then.
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Re: MA from Luke

Postby ErikCO » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:34 am

lukezhang wrote:Yes, I am releasing with rotation and without tipping. Here is my hip CA before release compared with yours. I don't want to pick on you. But I just felt missing respect.


Just a couple of quick observations about this (And, no, I won''t take offense at anything someone will say about the video clip, whether you, Max, jbotti, or Heluva, or others. Pretty sure that, compared to how Harald did MA on it, you won't get even close to being as critical! There is a lot that needs work in this clip!).

First, what you are showing in your frame captures is a lack of CB at the pelvis (not CA as you said) in my weaker turn direction, although I will admit that my CA could also be improved in that screenshot. I did not choose this clip to highlight good skiing, rather to give an example of the speed/focus you should be doing MA videos at. This video was from one of the first days in a week long camp. The coach I was working with had identified a particular weakness of mine and had given me a specific task to perform to address this. I was doing a relatively poor job in this clip. I could easily choose other clips that show better skiing and, if I increase my speed everything gets easier due to momentum. Doing a movement when you have momentum on your side does not demonstrate mastery. Doing it slowly does. Hence the multiple requests in this thread for you to slow things down and focus on primary movements.

Second, if you look at my MA thread in this forum, which does include a much more dynamic set of turns, the conclusion from Max_501 is that I need to focus on CB especially in my left hand turns (as you just identified here). Harald also made a post about working on the end of my right hand turns to improve my entry into the left turns. Both of these things are critiques I take very seriously and have been working on every day in my skiing.

Finally, one of the basic fundamentals of PMTS (at least as I have understood it, and anyone with more knowledge/experience than me feel free to correct) is that you need to focus on tipping as your primary means of achieving both release and controlling your turn shape/diameter. Active rotational skills are something to be avoided as they are NOT PMTS. If, as you just said, you are releasing without tipping and with rotation, you are doing the OPPOSITE of PMTS. Determining how to reverse that (i.e. releasing with only tipping and no rotation) should be your goal, not trying to get your skies to store energy and throw you into the next turn. I am not a PMTS coach, so if any coaches disagree, I will certainly bow to your expertise, but in several years of working with PMTS coaches at camps, I have yet to find one who says "Oh, don't worry about doing the primary movements, just increase your speed and everything will sort itself out."

Just going through a number of posts:

Max_501 wrote:As in a regular super phantom, transfer balance to LTE of the uphill ski. Then, touch the inside edge of the lifted, dowhnill ski to the inside ankle rivet of the stance boot ("inside foot arch touches outside foot ankle"). Keep it touching while tipping the free foot further toward its LTE. Don't let that free foot touch the snow until the very end of the turn. VERY IMPORTANT STEP! At the end of the turn, when the free foot touches the snow on its LTE, immediately pick up the new free foot, and touch-tilt the new stance boot.


RRT wrote:Here you go: Work on the drill in both videos, "early phantom" and on "a start to carving," on a green slope and go very, very slowly as shown in the videos. The second drill is generally harder to do than the first but both require lots of practice time as in manhy sessions of work in order to get correct. Do not make the mistake of thinking you have it down without getting a video check.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCyRgJ3k1cU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUAOFTB4OBc


Max_501 wrote:Too fast. Get video of SLOW one and two foot releases on a beginner run. Video of this exercise would be useful too.


noobSkier wrote:You are getting a bit more of an o-frame which is good, but turning mechanics haven't changed. Tipping is still lacking, tails still skidding, and upper body is still rotating into the turn. Don't get discouraged, this stuff takes a LONG time to fix, and even then you never stop working on it. Slow it down and work on your tipping...phantom garlands would be perfect IMO.


RTT wrote:My suggestion here has to do with more of an analysis of your overall approach which I believe is restricting your progress. To compare, take a look at your "slow turns" with the turns being used by another skier new to PMTS in the following video. Also, please notice the degree of the slope used by the skier compared to that in your latest video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... snbP4RlNeA

There is a tendency for those new to PMTS to try to jump ahead of actual PMTS skills capabilities. That is what restricts progression. Try isolating a singular specific PMTS skill (tipping in your case) by going from side to side, i.e, doing simple garlands without turns on an easy slope while lifting and tipping the free foot. Check the videos for specific instruction on just how that alone is done and (I know it's not your favorite) take a look back at Expert Skier 1. Both will help ground you as to where it all starts, what needs to be mastered first and how it flows from there. That approach will highlight weaknesses at the very start of the PMTS skills progression. It will also better help contributors in the forum to make pinpoint suggestions whether its time to back up some in the progression and just how to do that, or if it is time to step forward some in the progression and how to do that.


oggy wrote:Hi Luke,
slowing down in your last video makes it more clear what's going on. The turn mechanics on the turns to your left and the turns to your right are quite different (see if you can spot the differences). Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, neither of them are PMTS turns (though turns to your left show some tipping). Watch carefully the (whole!) video here and figure out which kinds of turns resemble yours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH50bo4hPQ8

If you want to make PMTS turns, the first step is to build a PMTS release, which is where the Expert Skier 1 book can bring you. But it's unlikely that you'll be able to build it on the type of slopes or the tempo that you showed in the video (e.g., I tried but failed). You'll need to start easier than that.


noobSkier wrote:lukezhang,

The truth is both turns are weak from a PMTS perspective. Tipping is your SMIM and if you skip steps it will never happen. Tipping is as much muscular as it is technical...you get better and stronger at it over time but only with the appropriate practice (sloooooow).


Max_501 wrote:You are jumping too far ahead. First you need all of the PMTS essentials in place. See my earlier posts on what to work on if your goal is a PMTS BPST (bullet proof short turn).


RRT wrote:These words tell you that what you are missing is that, in order to get a "natural pop" from your skis, it requires proper body alignment and movements. It's going to be hard for you to replicate what you are "seeing" without learning the necessary proper body alignment and movements.


RRT wrote:"Fore/aft balance is controlled by the actions of the free foot learned through our exercises of raising and lowering its tail." In this presentation, Harald presents in picture form that the tip is raised first. That could be a difficult move for beginners. So then, back up in the book to page 98-101 where he demonstrates picking up the tail only and mentions in Fig. d. on page 101 to "Pull the free foot aggressively toward the stance boot while keeping the tip of the free ski on the snow." The answer to your complaint above in simple terms is to pick up the heel of the free foot, tip the free ski over to its little toe edge while keeping the tip of the ski on the snow and aggessively pull back the same free foot toward the stance foot touching the rivet of the same to help in keeping the feet together.


Max_501 wrote:Work on establishing balance on the LTE before the release. The High-C portion of the turn is rushed (this is where the tail push is seen). Increase inside foot tipping. Work on including the pelvis with the torso for CA or CB.

Do you have any video of slow one and two footed releases?

Have you worked on the Super phantom with touch-tilt?


As is consistently shown by these comments, by multiple people, you need to slow down, focus on tipping, and get videos of drills that are both slow and focus on tipping. That is what you need to improve, from a PMTS standpoint. If you don't want to, that's totally fine. As I said in my previous post, everyone skies for different reasons and if you are having fun with your daughters (and more power too you for including them, too many parents these days don't!), I'm very happy for you. But I don't know if you will get much help from the MA offered by multiple members here if you don't take their suggestions seriously. In my experience, there are several groups of people who discover PMTS. The first if people who reject it outright. The second is people who decide that it is a system that has a few tips to add to their own skiing. The third is people who decide to totally reinvent their skiing around PMTS. From what I have seen, it would seem you fall into the second category. If that is true, you will not get the full benefit of PMTS. You will see improvements when you work on tipping, one footed balance, CA/CB, or other drills, but unless you are willing to totally reinvent your skiing, you will not see the full benefits. For better or for worse, the MA section of these forums is more geared toward people who are totally re-inventing their skiing.

Just to be clear, I have no animosity toward you based on your post. You are correct in your assessment that the video I posted needs some work. Compared to Diana's review of my skiing a year or so ago (stated in her very nice way, it amounted to this: you are able to tip a decent amount, the rest of your essentially either are non-existent or just plain suck) I doubt anyone will have as devastating of an MA for me ever in my life. (But I thank her for it every day I ski due to the improvements I have seen in my skiing in the last year and a half!) And I would absolutely love to ski with you and your daughters if you are ever in the Summit County area, whether you want skiing critiques or not (just PM me if you are ever in the area and want a ski buddy). However, if you really want to benefit from the MA advice from the various qualified members of this forums, you need to be willing to take their advice seriously.

Upon discovering PMTS I spent 2 seasons just working on one footed balance and tipping. Perhaps I was a slow learner, perhaps not. But those two things are the very basics of PMTS, and despite many years of work, with every camp I attend I am reminded that those skills can ALWAYS use work. I can't think of a ski day in the past several years when I haven't done super phantom practice at some point in the day. If I get to the end of a free-skiing run on tough terrain and am not happy with my performance, it is almost always due to a lack of those two essentials.

Well, that is enough for me for tonight. Hopefully there aren't too many typos or mistakes in this post. I've only spent 45min or so making it.
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