MA for young Tommi

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby DougD » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:42 am

Ancient wrote:
DougD wrote:He's not drifting. Look again... at the top of his turns. Do his ski tails always follow his ski tips?

Probably he pushes out the tails, correct?

Yes, on some turns he does. What movements is he making (or failing to make) that cause this?
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:55 pm

DougD wrote:
Ancient wrote:
DougD wrote:He's not drifting. Look again... at the top of his turns. Do his ski tails always follow his ski tips?

Probably he pushes out the tails, correct?

Yes, on some turns he does. What movements is he making (or failing to make) that cause this?

The flex to release?
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby DougD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 am

Exactly. There's often no release and no transfer. It's especially obvious when he's transitioning from a L footer to a R footer.

At the end of L footers he doesn't release the L ski and transfer balance to the R ski. Since the (still partially weighted) L ski is starting to flatten,it diverges downhill while the now partially weighted (but still tipped) R ski continues across the hill. This widens his stance to shoulder width or beyond and puts pressure on both BTEs. From that "railroad tracks" stance it's impossible to tip quickly enough for a SL turn, so he rotates (ie, pushes the tails).

So... his SMIM is free foot management with LTE balance during the transition. A great drill for this is the Super Phantom with Touch-Tilt, as described by Max_501:
As in a regular super phantom, transfer balance to LTE of the uphill ski. Then, touch the inside edge of the lifted, downhill ski to the inside ankle rivet of the stance boot ("inside foot arch touches outside foot ankle"). Keep it touching while tipping the free foot further toward its LTE. Don't let that free ski touch the snow until the very end of the turn. VERY IMPORTANT STEP! At the end of the turn, when the free foot touches the snow on its LTE, immediately pick up the new free foot, and touch-tilt the new stance boot.

When learning, you can begin with keeping the tip of the free ski on the snow, but the goal is to keep the whole ski lifted throughout the turn which is a true test of your ability to balance on the outside ski.


To improve balance he should practice gliding on the uphill LTE for a long time. Start as described above but glide on the uphill LTE for a s-l-o-w count of 1-2-3 before allowing the uphill ski to roll over onto its BTE.

Do this drill for many turns... many runs... many ski days. This is not easy to learn. Get video of this drill and post it.

+++

A related issue is his R hand, which often drops behind his hip. This drags his shoulders around to the R, partially unwinding CA, which undermines his balance during the transition. Good drills: Angry Mother and No Swing Pole Plant

***
Running gates or skiing difficult terrain will only reinforce these old movements. We've said it before... get him out of the gates and on easy slopes to learn correct balance and movements.

***
I am not a coach or a PMTS expert. If a more qualified PMTS skier has different ideas, they're probably right.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:26 am

DougD wrote:Exactly. There's often no release and no transfer. It's especially obvious when he's transitioning from a L footer to a R footer.

At the end of L footers he doesn't release the L ski and transfer balance to the R ski. Since the (still partially weighted) L ski is starting to flatten,it diverges downhill while the now partially weighted (but still tipped) R ski continues across the hill. This widens his stance to shoulder width or beyond and puts pressure on both BTEs. From that "railroad tracks" stance it's impossible to tip quickly enough for a SL turn, so he rotates (ie, pushes the tails).

So... his SMIM is free foot management with LTE balance during the transition. A great drill for this is the Super Phantom with Touch-Tilt, as described by Max_501:
As in a regular super phantom, transfer balance to LTE of the uphill ski. Then, touch the inside edge of the lifted, downhill ski to the inside ankle rivet of the stance boot ("inside foot arch touches outside foot ankle"). Keep it touching while tipping the free foot further toward its LTE. Don't let that free ski touch the snow until the very end of the turn. VERY IMPORTANT STEP! At the end of the turn, when the free foot touches the snow on its LTE, immediately pick up the new free foot, and touch-tilt the new stance boot.

When learning, you can begin with keeping the tip of the free ski on the snow, but the goal is to keep the whole ski lifted throughout the turn which is a true test of your ability to balance on the outside ski.


To improve balance he should practice gliding on the uphill LTE for a long time. Start as described above but glide on the uphill LTE for a s-l-o-w count of 1-2-3 before allowing the uphill ski to roll over onto its BTE.

Do this drill for many turns... many runs... many ski days. This is not easy to learn. Get video of this drill and post it.

+++

A related issue is his R hand, which often drops behind his hip. This drags his shoulders around to the R, partially unwinding CA, which undermines his balance during the transition. Good drills: Angry Mother and No Swing Pole Plant

***
Running gates or skiing difficult terrain will only reinforce these old movements. We've said it before... get him out of the gates and on easy slopes to learn correct balance and movements.

***
I am not a coach or a PMTS expert. If a more qualified PMTS skier has different ideas, they're probably right.


Many Thanks DougD,

I'll try to get Tommi doing these drills on an easy slope when he's not skiing with the Ski Racing Team, but as you can imagine there's not much time left free for us to ski together, although I have to say that his new coach looks more orientated towards PMTS concepts, or at least that's what I hope.

As soon as I feel that some improvement has been reached on the basis of the suggested drills, I'll post new videos during and after these drills.

Thanks again.

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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:22 pm

Can you see any improvement?

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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Jjmdane » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:14 am

Looks better but needs to use the front of the ski more. Everything seems to start from the binding back to the tail, when he gets small air in transition he never lands on the forebody of the ski. Dolphins and flappers might be good drills for him to learn to recenter. You can’t be forward all the time, you don’t want to be, but you must be able to recenter.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Darren » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:54 am

Right @ the get go when starting down hill feet are apart going into gate. When ever I start a run I always try to set my self up for success by having my feet together @ the get go.

Inside hand is dropping down & back. I m more of a free skier though I know if my out side hand swings around & punches forward while my inside hand drops down & back I do not ski well as it does not produce counter acting that is needed to get float out of the turn when flexing to release. It is very hard to pull the feet back when there is weight on the skis, Here is a question to PMTS skiers that ski gates is better to get the gate out of the way by swinging the out side hand forward & punch the gate out of the way or is there a better way to get the gate out of the way? I know this type of movement in free skiing is bad
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:40 am

Jjmdane wrote:Looks better but needs to use the front of the ski more. Everything seems to start from the binding back to the tail, when he gets small air in transition he never lands on the forebody of the ski. Dolphins and flappers might be good drills for him to learn to recenter. You can’t be forward all the time, you don’t want to be, but you must be able to recenter.


I agree....
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Darren » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:41 am

If you hold a ski base up with one end on the ground the other end in your hand so ski is on aprox 45 degree slope then place a ski pole upside down on the ski so the handle of the ski pole is sitting on the ski 90 degrees to flat ground & let the ski pole slide down the ski. The tip of the ski pole will fall backwards every time the ski pole slides down the ski base. Hold the ski pole slightly less then 90 degrees to the ski base to account for the friction of the pole handle sliding down the ski base & the pole will slide down the ski base staying @ that angle down the ski base.

Most skiers do not understand when sliding down a slippery surface they must bring their body forward to be in balance. In powder there is more friction so body does not need to come as far forward as on ice where there is less friction. To create understanding of how being perpendicular to the slope minus the friction forces allows for better balance by asking a student which way will the pole will fall before doing demonstration & showing how the pole slides down the ski being 90 degree to the ground & slightly less then 90 degrees to the base of the ski makes it easier for the skier to perform the correct movements to bring their body forward.

From experience of walking or standing on surfaces that are on an incline people keep their body 90 degrees to the center of the earth. Without understanding that when you slide down a slippery surface to stay balanced the center of mass must come forward it is hard to do when the mind thinks it is dangerous. It is sort of the same principal as being on edged when skiing one learns to try to keep their feet flat when walking because when you do not keep your feet flat & walk on the side edge of your feet it is easy to twist an ankle. Same is true when walking or standing on an incline if you bring your body forward 90 degrees to the slope of the hill instead of being 90 degrees to the center of the earth you will fall flat on your face because your not in balance. With understanding skis turn best when on edge & understanding the body must come forward to stay in balance with the forces when sliding down a slippery slope I think it is easier to do.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:38 am

Got it!
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby jbotti » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:06 pm

His SMIM (single most important movement) is fore aft balance. Any place there is any pitch his tips are coming way off the ground because his COM is aft. He has no shot in a race course with this kind of fore aft balance. He needs to learn how to pull back his feet in every transition.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:40 am

We will work on it!
Thanks.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby mardale » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:48 pm

You should ask his coaches, casually, how they go about teaching their slalom skiers to drop the inside hand while reaching way too much to crossblock every gate, resulting in him rotating into and out of the turn. He's got some skill, but that's, sadly, all he does! Quite sad, to see that at the end of an entire season of training...
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:12 am

:(
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:14 am

How do you evaluate this transition?

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipO ... aaVT9Cf1Ea
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