l2ski motion analysis

Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby l2ski » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:35 am

Max_501 wrote:
l2ski wrote:If I work on inside foot management should that fix this?


That's the right idea but start at the beginning to build a solid release. This still applies:

Max_501 wrote:The main issue is that you don't have a release. For drills to build a release I'd start with the Releasing chapter of Expert Skier Book 1 and the Eliminate the Wedge 3 Super Phantom eVideo.

The free PMTS Online Ski Lesson provides a good introduction on what it takes to build a functional release.


Thank you. By the way, I'm skiing slowly here on a green run.

I believe that I can perform the releasing drills that you mentioned correctly. They allow for some sliding
since they are done from stationary start or while slowly moving. I'll continue to work on them of course. Somehow
I cannot get it right during free skiing.

I believe I see the flaw in the release here.
I am not fully committing to releasing off the old stance ski. The ski is not flattening and my hips
do not begin to move across the skis before I transfer balance.

I can see that I transfer balance to the uphill ski on the LTE around frame 535 or 536.
The uphill ski has a sudden slight direction change, due to putting weight
on the LTE, and the skis
no longer look parallel. The down hill ski is now light and I'm trying to tip it to LTE as my hips
move across the skis, but the horizontal separation of the feet is too much.
So I start to pull the downhill ski toward the new stance ski as I'm trying to tip to LTE and CB. The tip is moving
faster than the tail and there is the appearance of a stem entry.

So I should relax/flex the old stance ski such that it begins to flatten and my pelvis begins to move across the skis.
I should pull the free foot in closer as this happens and then transfer balance to LTE before the old stance ski
becomes completely flat. Then I should begin tipping the new free ski to LTE.

In addition to working on having a solid release, maybe I should do some weighted releases; I can do them
on easy green runs. I'll try to get video of my practice.
Last edited by l2ski on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby l2ski » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:43 am

RRT wrote:There is a wedge showing up in the turns and thus an A-frame. Being able to stand on the uphill little toe edge while lifting, tipping and holding the old stance (downhill) ski off the ground is basic to turn progression and, in my very humble opinion, a SMIM at this point. In the eVideo on Eliminate the Wedge, 3, Diana meticulously demonstrates the skill including how to maintain balance over the skis. If you don't have them, it may be worthwhile purchasing all 3 eVideos on the topic.

https://harbskisystems.com/collections/evideos


Thanks for taking the time to analyse. I have all the e-videos and books from HH and Diana.
I do practice skiing on all four edges routinely every time I ski.

See my reply to Max_501. I analysed my release, and it appears to me that I'm transferring balance to LTE but
I'm not releasing off the stance ski correctly.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby Max_501 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:06 am

l2ski wrote:I believe I see the flaw in the release here.


From a PMTS point of view there is no release in this turn.

l2ski wrote:I can see that I transfer balance to the uphill ski on the LTE around frame 535 or 536.
The uphill ski has a sudden slight direction change, due to putting weight
on the LTE, and the skis
no longer look parallel. The down hill ski is now light and I'm trying to tip it to LTE as my hips
move across the skis, but the horizontal separation of the feet is too much.
So I start to pull the downhill ski toward the new stance ski as I'm trying to tip to LTE and CB. The tip is moving
faster than the tail and there is the appearance of a stem entry.


I don't see it that way. There is no transfer to the LTE. Instead the inside ski is pushed out to the BTE while the stance ski is still on its BTE which creates a wedge entry.

l2ski wrote:So I should relax/flex the old stance ski such that it begins to flatten and my pelvis begins to move across the skis.
I should pull the free foot in closer as this happens and then transfer balance to LTE before the old stance ski
becomes completely flat. Then I should begin tipping the new free ski to LTE.


I'd suggest going back to page 1 of book 1 to build a solid phantom.

l2ski wrote:In addition to working on having a solid release, maybe I should do some weighted releases; I can do them
on easy green runs.


The weighted release is too much of jump forward. Follow the progression in the books. Don't move forward until you've mastered the current chapter.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby DougD » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:28 am

l2ski wrote:I can see that I transfer balance to the uphill ski on the LTE around frame 535 or 536.
The uphill ski has a sudden slight direction change, due to putting weight on the LTE, and the skis no longer look parallel.

If this were happening, the uphill ski would turn slightly uphill. It doesn't. It turns downhill and creates the wedge Max described.

Frame 534: UH ski is still tipped toward its LTE, ski is parallel to DH ski
Frame 535: UH ski begins rolling off its LTE toward flat, DH ski remains on its BTE, UH ski is still parallel (but not for long)
Frames 536-44: UH ski continues rolling toward its BTE , DH ski remains on its BTE, UH ski begins to turn toward the DH ski
Frames 545-46: both skis on BTE, classic gliding wedge

As Max also said, in these frames there is no release of the old stance ski in a PMTS sense. You lead by sliding your hips laterally downhill, which rolls your UH ski toward flat as described above. Leading with the hips is not a PMTS movement. A PMTS release begins by flexing the stance leg and tipping the stance foot toward its LTE. These frames do not show those movements.

Prescription: what Max said
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby l2ski » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:24 am

Thank you Max_501 and DougD. I will go to work and take video.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby Matt » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:00 am

The skis are going past a lot of trees in the background even when the are pointing towards the camera, which suggests that there is a lot of sliding/skidding going on. If you don't have a good edge hold towards the end of the turn you don't have anything to release. The angles could be better but I think they are still enough to get some grip, which leads me to think that you are not balancing on the outside ski.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby l2ski » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:53 pm

Matt wrote:The skis are going past a lot of trees in the background even when the are pointing towards the camera, which suggests that there is a lot of sliding/skidding going on. If you don't have a good edge hold towards the end of the turn you don't have anything to release. The angles could be better but I think they are still enough to get some grip, which leads me to think that you are not balancing on the outside ski.


Here is the full video of the short clip:



I believe my free foot is light throughout the turn.
I understand Max's MA. There is no release. Maybe
I released some pressure but I did not flatten the stance ski and allow
my body to move laterally across the skis. I'm having a hard time
with this.

I will practice releasing this weekend and hopefully take video of it.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby Max_501 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:29 pm

You are lifting AFTER you stem to start the new turn. Lift and tip the downhill ski BEFORE you start the turn and you'll block the stem.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby DougD » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:57 pm

... I did not flatten the stance ski and allow
my body to move laterally across the skis.

You keep mentioning your body moving laterally across the skis. The body moves across the skis as a RESULT of the Primary Movements. We don't actively move the body laterally, so STOP thinking about it.

Focus only on what Max_501 said (flexing and tipping). NOTHING else at this stage, or you'll continue to be distracted by other (ineffective) movements.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby l2ski » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:25 am

DougD wrote:You keep mentioning your body moving laterally across the skis. The body moves across the skis as a RESULT of the Primary Movements. We don't actively move the body laterally, so STOP thinking about it.

Focus only on what Max_501 said (flexing and tipping). NOTHING else at this stage, or you'll continue to be distracted by other (ineffective) movements.


Hi Doug, thank you for reminding me; I do understand this. I'm trying to determine why I cannot do it in my free skiing.

I just studied eliminate the wedge 2 video; the release sequence that I keep in mind is
(1) flex
(2) flatten
(3) lighten
(4) tilt.

As Max said I need to lift and tip the downhill ski before I start the turn. I understand this.
But I find this easier to do in the drills than during free skiing. So I am missing a movement during free skiing.

So I'm mentioning the lateral movement of my body because lightening the stance foot
should be happening during flattening (Book 1, page 53). Lightening implies transferring balance to the uphill ski.
When should this happen in these turn at this speed? I believe it should happen when my hips are over my skis because that's
when I should be balanced to do it at this speed. What triggers the lateral movement of the body? I thought flexing would trigger
it, but It seems that I'm flexing and still hanging on to BTE.

So here's a questions on the details. In (2), does going from BTE to flat require foot tipping at this speed? I believe the answer is yes
because I should try to transfer weight before the downhill ski goes flat. I think this is the missing movement. I do
flex at the end of the turn but then flexing stops and I'm still on BTE.

When I practice the drills in Chapter 4 and 6 of Book 1, then I flatten by tipping my foot / rolling my ankle from BTE to flat.

Here is something else that I'm thinking about; on easy green terrain I can ski on one ski. When I want to go
in the direction toward the LTE side, I need to continue flexing and tipping to make the turn happen. The movements
are continuous and together.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby Max_501 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:07 am

IMO you are over analyzing and making this too complicated. Start on page 1 of book 1 and don't move to the next drill until you have the current drill mastered. Try to get video to confirm.

As far as timing goes. Lift/tip/tuck the downhill ski right BEFORE you want to start the new turn.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby DougD » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:50 am

What Max said.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby h.harb » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:25 am

https://harbskisysems.blogspot.com

Since there seems to be a long ongoing thread about how to reduce a Wedge Christie here is the answer.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby RRT » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:18 pm

On eVideo, "Eliminate The Wedge, 3," starting at the 12:00 minute mark, Diana also methodically describes and demonstrates that which Max and Harald describe.
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Re: l2ski motion analysis

Postby l2ski » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:19 pm

h.harb wrote:https://harbskisysems.blogspot.com

Since there seems to be a long ongoing thread about how to reduce a Wedge Christie here is the answer.


Thank you Harald! I feel like it's Christmas :)

That's exactly what I feel during the transition; I don't feel strong enough to put
weight on the uphill ski at that point by lifting and tipping the downhill ski.
I'm looking forward to practicing tomorrow and obtaining video.
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