Max_501 wrote:theorist wrote:...(since only in a locked carve would you be able to make the skis resist the high forces needed to get high angles)...
Was there something in the books or on this forum that led you to this conclusion?
Sorry for the delayed reply, but I temporarily wasn't able to access my account.
When I wrote that I was thinking of skiing on groomers, where you'd need a lot of centripetal force back from the skis to keep your hips up off the snow at high angles, like the 2nd pic of Bode here:
http://harbskisysems.blogspot.com/2013/ ... style.html -- but yes, in powder, if you allow your hips to be on (and thus supported by) the snow, I guess you could get these angles even though the snow is breaking away (though, as Harald said above, there wouldn't be a point to doing this in powder: "it's not about the high angles in off piste skiing anyway").
But, as to my understanding that brushies inherently involve lower stance ski angles than edge-locked turns, here's where this was coming from: I was recalling SkierSynergy's and Harald's detailed posts at
http://pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=970, in which they said the way you make a brushed carve, rather than its equivalent edge-locked variant, is you still tip the inside foot strongly, but hold back on the engagement of the stance foot, keeping it at a reduced edge angle. With this reduced angle, the ski won't grip as well, thus allowing the outward drift that is the signature of a brushed carve:
Harald: "A PMTS brushed carve is just a locked carve without the commitment to lay the ski over far enough to lock the side of the ski (edge) into the snow. The mechanics are the same."
SkierSynergy: "Drift can be achieved when the angle of the stance ski is less than the angle of the free foot ski."
So while you can certainly do a shallow edge-locked carve, or a brushie with stronger angles, it is my understanding that, directly comparing a edge-locked carve to its equivalent brushed variant, the latter would, by its very nature, have lower stance ski angles.
Also, I'm not clear on this, but I gather one can either brush the entire turn, or can decide to shift to an edge-lock at some point -- that this is up to the skier. Is that true, or is the brushing typically only done during the engagement phase?
[I just re-read the Essentials chapters on countering, and still don't understand why a brushie requries more countering ROM than an equivalent edge-locked carve. But since Essentials says "Upper body counter increases as edge angles increase", I thought I should first clarify my understanding of the relationship between a brushed turn and edge angles, which is what motivated my questions on this.]
h.harb wrote:Here in two of these I'm on 95mm skis and I have one run on You Tube on a steep groomer, definitely not locked carve, with the Rock and Roll skis, but there is a drift in the arcs.
It appears to me the drift you're getting here isn't because you're holding back on the angulation of the stance ski, as you'd do in a brushie. From these pics, it looks like you're cranking both skis (as you would in an edge-locked turn), but getting drift just because the snow is soft. (?) [Edit: I'm assuming what defines a brushie is the movement (holding back the stance ski), rather than the outcome (drift).]
Also, just curious, but in the first pic are you on the Mya 7's?