.....This is where HH MA really goes astray. One of his pet PMTS technical philosophies is the emphasis he places on early pressure during the high C portion of the turn. That is, the portion of the turn immediately proceeding the transition, while the skis are still at their sharpest angle to falline. This is a very good thing for recreational skiers to work on, and I'm sure Greg could do it in his sleep, but it's not something that WC racers do. High C edge engagement equates to arc to arc skiing. Modern course sets and racer tactics have made arc to arc skiing a comparatively round, slow and non-competitive tactic. What's really needed to be competitive is a pivoted redirection that eliminates high C engagement, and delays that engagement till the falline.
Only on the flats, where offset in minimized, will high C pressure focus have any relevancy in modern technical event ski racing. Consistently encouraging high C engagement to racers is very dated advice, and will only serve to make them less competitive. Joseph advocated the same thing to Greg over on Realskiers, obviously following HH misguided high C lead.
A.L.E wrote:This is some of RS thinking on racing and early Hi C edge engagement. Sorry.....a blast from the past on Epic......This is where HH MA really goes astray. One of his pet PMTS technical philosophies is the emphasis he places on early pressure during the high C portion of the turn. That is, the portion of the turn immediately proceeding the transition, while the skis are still at their sharpest angle to falline. This is a very good thing for recreational skiers to work on, and I'm sure Greg could do it in his sleep, but it's not something that WC racers do. High C edge engagement equates to arc to arc skiing. Modern course sets and racer tactics have made arc to arc skiing a comparatively round, slow and non-competitive tactic. What's really needed to be competitive is a pivoted redirection that eliminates high C engagement, and delays that engagement till the falline.
Only on the flats, where offset in minimized, will high C pressure focus have any relevancy in modern technical event ski racing. Consistently encouraging high C engagement to racers is very dated advice, and will only serve to make them less competitive. Joseph advocated the same thing to Greg over on Realskiers, obviously following HH misguided high C lead.
He races, I don't, so it's not my place to comment on what racer's practice or experience. I do though recall Ted or Darren saying in a magazine interview that was posted here or over there, saying they didn't practice pivots/stivots because they were slow. Carving practice was the focus, pivots/stivots happen naturally as a result of gate placement
Matt wrote:Nothing can be more wrong than what RS says above. I cannot recall how many interviews I have seen where coaches and athletes state that they have been focusing a lot of the pre-season technical training on getting as early engagement as possible. Off course sometimes it is not possible to get very early engagement, but that does not mean they are not trying.
Also what RS does not seem to understand is that when you switch edges the direction of the skis change, but this does not matter because what matters is the direction of the skis compared to the direction of the CoM. This means that even though it may look like a pivot, it is still carving.
RS wrote:One of his ( he's referring to me) pet PMTS technical philosophies is the emphasis he (Harald) places on early pressure during the high C portion of the turn.
That is, the portion of the turn immediately proceeding the transition, while the skis are still at their sharpest angle to falline
It's not a good thing to work on for anyone. a true baboon.This is a very good thing for recreational skiers to work on
Geoffda wrote:Yep. RS seems to think that racers come into a turn thinking, "O.K., this is too tight, I'm going to pivot my skis now." That just isn't correct. When you go to make a turn, your instinct is to get the ski on edge and get it carving. Now maybe you don't have the skill to actually make it happen for that particular turn, and the end result is something else, but any racer worth their salt goes in *trying* to carve. They sure as hell aren't going to review their run afterwards and think, "gee if only I would have pivoted better in the 6th and 7th gates, I could have made the podium..." No, what they are going to do is say, "Crap, I really screwed up on the 6th and 7th gates--I was sliding like crazy. With the basketball turn thrown in, it was pure survival mode for me. Everybody was struggling there, but three or four of the other guys were much better than me. I saw so and so go through there and even though he slid into the 6th, he was able to set up well and nail the 7th. I'm pretty sure that's where he won the race. I've got to figure out how to carve more of that section because I lost way too much time with my skis sideways..."
h.harb wrote:His technical skiing knowledge is so convoluted I wouldn't have a clue where to start skiing like he suggests even if I could figure out his philosophy and progression. And why would I want to ruin my skiing.
PMTS has a proven track record, a number of books an manuals, not only is it easy to follow but it's more effective than any system till now.
As far as what RS writes here it's confusing.RS wrote:One of his ( he's referring to me) pet PMTS technical philosophies is the emphasis he (Harald) places on early pressure during the high C portion of the turn.
Will someone tell me where I wrote this, because i don't have this philosophy and I constantly tell skiers "not to pressure" or push into the ski in the High C. It's actually explained in detail in the Essentials book. Max-501 and Geoffda are the historians, and if I said this I'd like to know because it was mistaken or written incorrectly. I never believed this was the way to ski and it certainly isn't part of PMTS. I have always said early high C preparation and engagement, not pressure. Engaging means putting the skis on edge and balancing on the edges it doesn't mean pressuring. Pressuring in the high C would require an extension and pushing or standing, I have never written or advised to do this. So why is he making this shit up? ALE do you have any idea?,
......
The upper and lower body are not supporting pressure building. The turn arc is not reduced or shortened by pressuring the ski, the side cut is grinding into the snow doing all the turning, this is OK for a recreational skier, but for a racer this won?t hold up. This is evident because the upper body leans away from where pressure needs to develop. When the upper body leans away, the turn has to have a hard hit at the finish, because the pressure was not loaded higher in the arc.
There is little preparation in the High C phase of the turn. The upper body comes square much too early, which is also a pressure robber. The square upper, to lower body position reduces hip angle, this is demonstrated by where the inside leg resides. You see the inside leg is not flexed under the hips, it is at the same angle as the out side ski, this tells me there is reduced pressure on the outside ski.
I can verify that by the release, as it is an up movement release, which means the rebound to send the skier to the next turn with a float, did not happen and will not happen...........
...A program for this skier, first his feet are too far apart, that?s part of the reason the CM is sitting on or over the inside leg rather than inside the turn, and why he has to extend to get out of the turn. If he could ski without weighting his inside ski it would really help develop balance. This skier has yet to make a turn that demonstrates the use of balance, that I?ve seen. It would be a building process to undo and rebuild a real project. .....
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