Japow wrote:Well, I know this is going to create conflict, but the most recent photos in this thread look pretty average to me, for all the talk of counter acting/balancing and no swing pole plants, the last photo of Jbotti looks fully inclined, and the photo of Diana looks like she's dropping her inside hand and going for a big swing with her outside. I am not wishing to attack PMTS here, just say that if people are going to be put up as poster children they might want to be able to walk the walk...
Am I really the only one who sees this?
I'd agree with you on JBotti (as I'm sure would he), but I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody is holding that frame up as being a reference for anything except a good time. Unless you have skied with JBotti, I'm not sure how you could take a single frame out of a single turn and conclude that he isn't "walking the talk". I know for a fact that I made more than one turn today that probably looked like JBotti's frame. I also know that I made hundreds where my counter balance was where I wanted it. Not only did I make a whole lot of turns today that I liked, it gets better every time I go out. I'm sure JBotti and Max and any other "poster child" for PMTS would echo that sentiment. Moreover, every season I get orders of magnitude better and have more fun as a result. Given that perfection isn't in the cards, what more could you want?
It's pretty easy to catch the best skiers in the world looking bad, so if you want to poach single frames, what chance do any of us mere mortals have? What I can tell you is that serious PMTS students do their best to "walk the talk" whenever they ski and it shows. You can always spot a PMTS skier on the hill and higher level PMTS skiers get consistently asked how they learned to ski so well. I hear it enough that I've started carrying Harb Ski Systems business cards in my pockets. Make friends with a PMTS student and ski with them on a regular basis and you will begin to understand why many of us are such fanatics about it. We ski differently because we are taught differently and when you start paying attention to the progress that people are making with PMTS, it is frankly unbelivable.
The difference with PMTS is we're all about inputs. The inputs matter more than the outcome. I was skiing bumps on a FIS legal race stock slalom ski the other day and as a result, I couldn't handle the energy well enough to keep snow contact with the ski. An observer would say that the vast majority of my turns were pivoted. But such an observation misses the point entirely. My first movement is always to go to edge. Now if that happens when I'm in the air, then yeah, a pivot may happen due to rotary effects, but it isn't because I'm twisting my feet. When I come down, I'll be on edge in the high C.
Your observation about JBotti being inclined is correct, but what matters isn't that he is inclined. What matters is the affect that will have on his balance and his ski performance. PMTS isn't about creating cookie cutter skiers who all look the same. It is about teaching people the necessary movements to extract performance out of the ski. For lower level skiers, that means learning rote movements like counter balancing. For higher level skiers, it translates into using the movements necessary to get the desired performance out of the ski. I haven't skied with John, but I can tell you with confidence that the picture would look considerably different on hard pack.
The difference between PMTS and just about everybody else is that our first instinct is *always* to go to little toe-edge at transition. The mindset is always to go from one set of edges to the other without direction change. Whether that actually happens is irrelevant because we are *always* using the movements that will make that happen to the extent that it is possible. That is what high C carving is all about and it is why you don't see high end PMTS skiers hopping their turns in difficult conditions.
While you can bust on JBotti's shot all you want, you can deduce nothing about his skiing from it because he isn't in the portion of the turn that matters most. Moreover, there are plenty of skiers that look world class through two thirds of the arc, yet we would not consider to be great skiers. If you want to know whether somebody knows how to ski, watch their feet at transition. Is their first movement to go to edge or is it to twist? Are they getting grip and controlling speed above the falline or are they steering into it and accelerating? High C engagement is what matters most, so that is the place to start when it comes to understanding whether you are dealing with a skier or a hack.
BTW, you are way off base with Diana. Her shoulders are about as level as you will ever see from anyone, so it is not possible for her to be dropping her inside hand. She is pushing forward with it, which is entirely correct (though it does cause it to drop relative to the elbow). You might be wondering if she is about to leave it behind, but I'm not. I'm pretty sure that the next few frames would show her continuing to drive her hand forward as she increases her counteracting. As far as the no-swing pole plant, that is exactly what it looks like at the falline. Her wrist is cocked and she is ready to make her next pole plant well ahead of when she will actually need it. She will need nothing more than a wrist flick when she is ready. I can say these things because I've skied with Diana and I have some understanding of the inputs that are involved to ski the way she does.
Oh yeah. THANKS FOR THE STOKE! These are some great pictures!