Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby Max_501 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:02 pm

h.harb wrote:I disagree, yes, maybe you didn't read my posts on this thread. Am I not clear enough! Also, in the posts, I explained why I disagree with this part of your post.

I have no doubt Reilly and Berger have no problem helping a dedicated skier get to the expert level.


OK, I think I get it now.

Fun to read some of the Reilly-PMTS history. Reilly has come a long way from his first MA of HH and his thoughts on PMTS.

2007

If I'm not mistaken this was the first time we saw a video of Reilly on this forum and HH's first MA of his skiing.

Request for evaluation of a skier

2009

WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

h.harb wrote:Now this guy Reilly on the other hand is funny. I have no animosity toward him, he’s just a kid who has lots to learn and not much figured out yet. He’s learning, too bad for him, the hard way.


2013

Reilly ski "training" videos, not really!

I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

2016

A one turn comparison, Reilly with Harald

h.harb wrote:Reilly is a dynamic well rounded skier. He is on the Ozzie Demo Team with Paul Lorenz. These guys are far ahead of the rest to the Demo Teams in their skiing. Even ahead of well known per annual greats like the Austrians and Japanese.


2018

Evolution of WC racer technique, and PMTS.

h.harb wrote:Reilly McGlashin is one of the best PMTS freeskiers. Reily learned it through coaching and studying, reading.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:11 pm

This is great history thanks MAx. I still remember the early videos of Reilly and Paul where they had pronounced "A-frames", late hard hits and lots of up extension movements. They didn't know how to release or create early angles. Like Steve Porino advice "early pressure" that is what they were after, which is still all wrong.

I don't have enough fingers to count how many skiers in my career I have run into who skied at a high level but skied incorrectly. By incorrectly I mean they had missing components and therefore they were making compensation type movements. To the regular eye, (untrained) they look great because there is lots of action and high-speed movement. However, they are often inefficient and wasting lots of energy.

Richie Berger is probably the most natural instinctive skier I've watched, beside Hirscher, but no one will ever be able to ski at Hirscher's level. All the Demo guys watched Berger's skiing for years, they studied his movements, they listen to his advice, yet they can't ski like him. Why? Because Richie Berger doesn't convey his movements for the way he skis in his presentations or clinics. He comes up with the "NTS" company line, traditional instruction.

NTS=National Teaching System

Reilly, Paul, and others were not skiing like Richie before I started to coach them and work on their boot set up. Even these great athletes and skiing professionals could not learn by watching. When I saw them skiing in videos, I was not impressed, I saw lots of issues.

Some new people may think this is arrogant but those that do may not realize, I've skied and trained with World Champions since I was 20 years old. World Champions in my day were Jean Noel Augert, (he Won 5 world cup slaloms in one season) and Werner Bliener (silver medal), Andre Bachleda (a world cup GS winner).

Later, as a coach, I skied with Ingemar Stenmark and he trained with us. He spent a week with me and my group of Nor-Am skiers. How many coaches have had that experience? I've trained with the best, first hand, I've skied with the best first hand. I've skied with Eric and Rob Deslauriers, Doug Combs, Tommy Moe, the Cochrans, the Mahres, the list goes on. So when I see good freeskiers, their errors stand out immediately to my eyes.

I am not intimidated by what responses I might get when I offer a critic about anyone's skiing because I can back it up. Demo Team skiers are not at the level as the top World Cup skiers or even the best Nor-Am racers. This gives you some context.

I coached a young racer in Alaska for three seasons, he was on the same team I was coaching in Alaska when I had Tommy Moe in the program. He went on to place 3rd twice at the Valdez World Extreme Championships, I coached Chris Davenport from when he was 14 to when he was 17, and his sister Kate who made the US Ski Team. I'm not intimidated by the Mike Rogans or the Epic ski people; they are far lesser skiers than the people I grew up with.

I'm sorry to rant on like this but sometimes I just get the feeling there is so much misinformation about skiing out there and it's from so-called experts with no real background. So when people say "Who do you think you are telling Reilly what is wrong with his skiing, I can tell you. In fact, Reilly is "now" very appreciative of my coaching and we have an ongoing relationship.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby blackthorn » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:53 pm

I've recently subscribed to Projected Productions for ~$US10 permonth and watched most of the product.
I really enjoy watching the skiing ( any skiing actually!), and they are great athletes.
With my PMTS lenses on I am able, I hope, to ignore a lot of the bad interpretation and advice, and still pick out one or two pearls. There is a lot of inconsistency.
I am unlikely to extend my subscription.
For those who have studied PMTS there may be enjoyment and a little value. For those without, I think it will all, while enjoyable, become confusing; there is not a lot of consistency, and poor understanding of the physics of skiing, and little methodology.
The HH comments on this thread, and in the Takao thread, for me, say it all.
But why, when I discuss with my friends, do they not seem to understand??!!! - ( rhetorical)
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby dougtee » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:13 am

i find it incredible the breadth of harald's knowledge and how he can tailor it as appropriate. for instance it doesnt seem like the other internet instructor types could engage with non-skiing experts in physics, kinesiology, etc about what happens in skiing and have it be a high level two way conversation.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby h.harb » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:03 pm

The secret, watching thousands of people trying to balance for over 55 years on skis and figuring out what works. The endless quest for answers and evolving the process of teaching and boot mechanics. Also, surrounding yourself with the best people who are as driven as you to the goal.

Thank you for the comments.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby Vailsteve » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:17 pm

Old thread I know...but still informative to me as we move to the start of this new season.

Greg, aka Helavaskier, in another post, encapsulated — in my mind—, the single biggest difference in PMTS teaching versus ANY other school...PSIA, CSIA, KSIA whomever. (Ok...maybe not the Austrians,,).

Greg said PMTS focuses on the INPUTS, that subsequently create the desired outcomes.

Another version.. PMTS develops the inputs that create the outcomes. Step by step by step.

Tipping, CA, CB, foot pullback, flexing/relaxing, not extending or pushing, narrow stance, early angles to create pressure, are all hallmarks of Harald’s system.

It is a VERY good system. Thank you Harald.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby arothafel » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:39 am

A little off topic... since I'm not sure if he teaches. But Patrick Batz keeps showing up in my Facebook feed. Any thoughts on his skiing?
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby HeluvaSkier » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:36 pm

arothafel wrote:A little off topic... since I'm not sure if he teaches. But Patrick Batz keeps showing up in my Facebook feed. Any thoughts on his skiing?


We are FB friends. His skiing is pretty fantastic if you ask me. Not sure if I mentioned in this thread or not, but Benni Walch is another great Austrian skier I've been watching a lot.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby arothafel » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:27 am

His skiing is pretty fantastic if you ask me


Agreed. He appears to me to be PMTS.... I'll search for Benni Walch on FB.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby dougtee » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:46 am

hadnt seen benni walch before but like what i am seeing. it seems a bit more sustainable if that makes sense? maybe thats just me being a bit more skeptical of reilly's skiing since it has basically already wrecked his body.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:35 am

dougtee wrote:hadnt seen benni walch before but like what i am seeing. it seems a bit more sustainable if that makes sense? maybe thats just me being a bit more skeptical of reilly's skiing since it has basically already wrecked his body.


I think both are fantastic examples of short turns using the same fundamentals we talk about in PMTS. I suspect either one of them could demonstrate the other's turns if prompted. I don't think one version has more or less impact on the body, rather it is likely that the combination of high volume and high intensity is simply not sustainable. Of course I'm not privy to any details of Reilly's specific situation and wouldn't share the details if I were. I just hope to see him back at his best as I love watching his skiing. Based on the few conversations I've been fortunate enough to have with him over the years, I have no doubt that he will do everything that he can in order to learn about and fix whatever his limitations are.

Keep in mind that not all 'pros' you see on YouTube are out instructing/coaching every day... Many do occasional camps or clinics while also running ski schools and taking the infrequent private lesson. Some barely instruct at all anymore. Reilly on the other hand, does it all, while logging both northern and southern hemisphere seasons and has done-so for nearly two decades as far as I'm aware. Skiing at, or even close to, his level beats the living sh*t out of the body. Its hard to even describe the level of total-body fatigue it causes. Suffice to say that no amount of training or fitness can replace allowing the body to rest and recover (and guys like Reilly are absolutely ripped). Not only is it a hard way to make a living, but staying at his level for years upon years, is exhausting.

Look no further than Harald to see how hard this business is on the body, and he is also in fantastic shape, has taken care of his body for decades, come back from major injuries, and remained a world class skier. It would be easy for someone like HH to get fat and lazy and simply trade on his name and accomplishments (many in the ski instruction world do exactly that), but he hasn't. I suspect Reilly is similarly wired.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby arothafel » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:52 am

Totally I agree with your statements, Helluva.

I work with professional fitness trainers and coaches every day as a vendor. Whenever the subject of skiing comes up, they are in awe of the conditioning of World Cup racers... not to mention someone like HH who's been skiing at such high levels for decades.

The biomechanics and physiology involved (not to mention innate balance, reflexes and fearlessness) is pretty amazing. Yes, there are other sports that are equally demanding, but, as one premier trainer once remarked to me, "World class skiers are 'different animals, period.'
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby Roundturns » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:12 pm

I’m not a PMTS trained skier but have the videos and books HH has done. Here’s what I believe is very special and differentiates PMTS instruction from other ski instruction and for that matter as a comparison golf instruction.

There is no vagueness with PMTS. HH spells it out clearly in a progression and the instructions builds into a movement pattern. No shades of gray, everything is spelled out. Whether you can execute the movements is kind of moot, because you are provided a very clear cut explanation of what to do and why , so you aren’t left scratching your head and trying to figure out what he means.

It’s hard to do “anything” well, but with PMTS you’re provided with a very clear explanation of what to do, how to do it, and why.

Contrast this teaching to let’s say golf and how release is explained by PGA golf pros and good luck figuring out what they are saying You’re left interpreting the instruction and most likely interpreting incorrectly and being left in a permanent “fog”.

Lots of “ good” skiers really have no idea how to convey the movement patterns that they incorporate in their skiing. In a lot of cases they maybe skiing well inspite of themselves. In golf , good luck having a good golfer explain to you what they are doing.

All of the above to say, PMTS breaks it down, removes confusion, and provides a blue print of what to do.

You still have to possess a range of motion and athleticism to execute PMTS , but you aren’t left bewildered and confused about what you need to be doing.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby alpinebaseline » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:46 pm

Is there a PMTS equivalent in the golf world out of interest?
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby Marc » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:25 pm

Is there a PMTS equivalent in the golf world out of interest?


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