Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

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Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:46 pm

Found this...



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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby noobSkier » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:16 pm

While we can all agree that these guys are incredible skiers, you can't help but ask...where is the body of work? Where are all the skiers these guys have trained? Has anyone's skiing actually improved? Im genuinely curious because I've seen no evidence of the above. Where are the results?
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby HeluvaSkier » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:43 am

While I don't know everyone these guys have trained, Reilly and Paul have both been heavily influenced by Berger's skiing for a long time. Berger has had decades of influence on Japanese and Korean ski technique. It is no mistake that he has earned 'fore-runner' status at the Japan Technical National Championships (and still managed to lay it down better than all of the competitors, many who are half his age). Reilly and Paul, over the years have spent a lot of time with guys like Josh Duncan Smith, Tom Gellie, JF, one of the guys on the Argentinian demo team (name escapes me) and more--just have a look at all the athletes in the Projected Productions videos or involved in the Rookie Academies (which train instructors from all over the world during the southern hemisphere winter). I also believe that Reilly, Harald and Richie skied together in Austria on at least one occasion. All of these guys have a mutual respect for what each other is doing and has done in the ski industry--you should too.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby oggy » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:21 pm

I have the Project Kitz video and I'll be getting this one when it comes out. IMO the quality of the teaching in Kitz wasn't quite up to the quality of the skiing, but hearing what things these guys are working on in their own skiing was still interesting. And the skiing was phenomenal!
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby noobSkier » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:04 pm

HeluvaSkier wrote:While I don't know everyone these guys have trained, Reilly and Paul have both been heavily influenced by Berger's skiing for a long time. Berger has had decades of influence on Japanese and Korean ski technique. It is no mistake that he has earned 'fore-runner' status at the Japan Technical National Championships (and still managed to lay it down better than all of the competitors, many who are half his age). Reilly and Paul, over the years have spent a lot of time with guys like Josh Duncan Smith, Tom Gellie, JF, one of the guys on the Argentinian demo team (name escapes me) and more--just have a look at all the athletes in the Projected Productions videos or involved in the Rookie Academies (which train instructors from all over the world during the southern hemisphere winter). I also believe that Reilly, Harald and Richie skied together in Austria on at least one occasion. All of these guys have a mutual respect for what each other is doing and has done in the ski industry--you should too.


I respect anyone trying to make a living. This is an advertisement for a paid information product, is it unreasonable to discuss the value proposition? No-one would question their skiing prowess. Frankly, as someone who only started skiing at 23, I don't see how early-age skiers who apparently spend alot of time training eachother is going to help me. All this to say, it's important to appreciate the difference between what Harald is doing and the rest of the field.

I did however purchase the takao video, which is great content but not going to improve your skiing.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby Max_501 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:58 pm

noobSkier wrote:Frankly, as someone who only started skiing at 23, I don't see how early-age skiers who apparently spend alot of time training eachother is going to help me.


I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Berger must be in his 50s and Reilly is probably somewhere in his 30s, both have plenty of coaching experience and skiing chops to coach me! More important to me is that both are obviously very serious about continuing to improve their technique (easy to see in the change in their skiing over the years).

noobSkier wrote:All this to say, it's important to appreciate the difference between what Harald is doing and the rest of the field.


HH and Diana have created one heck of a ski teaching system. As far as I know it is unrivaled. But that doesn't mean that there aren't others that are producing expert skiers. I have no doubt Reilly and Berger have no problem helping a dedicated skier get to the expert level. I'd be honored to have the good fortune to be coached by either of them.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby noobSkier » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:42 pm

By early age, I mean started as kids. What I am really getting at is skiers like me who didn't start young don't need "ideas about skiing"...we need skiing commandments and well defined training structure. This is the only way to excel. Im sure these guys can coach each other, thats not the issue. The point is it takes an entirely different approach to ween the average skier off their sub-optimal movements and I just don't think thats possible with Richie Berger style wedging (on full display here). HH and DR have taken it as their mission to make parallel skiing accessible to ALL, and I don't see anyone else trying to do that.

I say this as a huge fan of both Reilly and Berger.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:01 pm

Max_501 wrote:HH and Diana have created one heck of a ski teaching system. As far as I know it is unrivaled. But that doesn't mean that there aren't others that are producing expert skiers. I have no doubt Reilly and Berger have no problem helping a dedicated skier get to the expert level. I'd be honored to have the good fortune to be coached by either of them.


This really says it all.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby oggy » Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:02 am

Just watched the video. I don't think it offers very much in terms of teaching to somebody familiar with PMTS, except perhaps to those at already a very high level. E.g., Reilly discusses different turn shapes he makes and the tracks they leave in the snow, but I find even telling those turns apart hard :D It doesn't help that you're stuck with the stock video player with no frame by frame playback (the offer is subscription based, online only). On the positive side, for skiers not lucky enough to run into PMTS, this video is the next best thing that I know of, as both Paul and Reilly focus heavily on tipping, and Reilly and Berger on good hips and upper body. And at 10 bucks for all the videos for a month it's not exactly breaking the bank...
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby h.harb » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:49 am

I think Noobskier has it right. This time, I'll disagree with Helluva and Max501. About 7 or 8 years ago I watched Reilly and Paul in a video. I think I even posted a photo of Reilly skiing with his "A-Frame" here on the forum. Max501 can find it if it's still here.

I have a history with these guys since then.

At that time, I commented on Reilly's skiing from the video, a Youtube video section. I did some movement analysis about his, at the time, pronounced "A frame". Reilly was big toe, outside knee dominant, and he also lacked inside ski tipping and fore/aftt balance. I think Helluva will remember he had some of the same issues we worked on including counter acting.

To his credit, Reilly got back to me, I didn't know him at the time. He challenged me in an email about my comments and asked what I meant. I explained it to him. He worked on it and for about two seasons he sent me video and I coached him into the way he skis now. Reilly took our alignment course and we fixed his boot set up. Last spring I skied with Reilly, and Richie. Richie is a soft spoken very nice guy.

Also in the last two years I've told Tom Gellie how to fix his boots and his skiing, dramatic changes happened with Tom as a result. Obviously these guys are talented athletes that can take advice and apply movements (if they are correct) and change their skinig quickly.

No guys, Richie Berger didn't change Reilly or Tom's skiing. In fact, Reilly had been watching Richie for years and it did nothing for his skiing.

Richie has no experience with boot alignment or PMTS movements. I don't think he can coach anyone into skiing like he does or he would have done so. I know Richie, I've listened to him coach, and watched him teach. I've skied with him, and I have the utmost respect for his skiing but he is not a great coach. Sure he can let his skiing talk for him, but that doesn't mean he can convey the correct movements, or build a program to bring a skier to the highest levels..

Go ahead, say I'm crazy, arrogant, self-promoting, anything you like, but those are the facts. Frankly, I'm sick of people taking my information, my teaching, learning and benefiting from it and then not mentioning where it came from. It is especially frustrating when it happens here on a forum that should know better.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby h.harb » Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:25 pm

How can anyone with any understanding of how people learn and develop skiing movement endorse this video? Paul posted this video and it's flat out terrible teaching and a terrible progression. Skiers do not learn to ski better and don't improve to high levels using the wrong movements. She skis off at the end and does exactly the opposite of her presentation, which was one of the worst I have ever seen. This reminds me of some of the confusion J.F. Beauleux puts out.


As I posted earlier, Paul and "the group" can ski, but they don't understand ski teaching, mechanics, biomechanics or progressions that develop correct movements.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:00 pm

Why does this group still teach/ peddle this junk, when they clearly don’t use the same system when ‘they’ ski?? HH & PMTS has clearly had a influence on their skiing. Why are they not all PMTS accredited? As professional athletes & coaches, why would they not?
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby h.harb » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:13 pm

A ski teacher who is of high quality and of the highest skill level shows the following traits. A high understanding of physics and knows the kinesiology. (Kinesiology addresses physiological, biomechanical, and psychological dynamic principles and mechanisms of movement.) Has experience developing (that means teaching and evolving skiers to all levels) skiers at every level from beginner to the world cup. Knows and has worked with skiers to correct boots and knows what changes will make a skier come right.

A high-quality teacher can break down your skiing into small bits that can be isolated and developed until the student can achieve the movement. This can't be done if the movements are traditional in nature, which means they teach any of the following: hopping, squaring up, pole swing, steering, extending up and down, rather than flexing and giving in. None if this is PMTS.

BTW, if you watched this whole Ship Wreck, height has nothing to do with stance width, it has to do with hip-width and balance. She is taking out of her ass.

How many of these traits are missing amongst the skiers who are making all the movies? All of them. What trait did I not mention that they do have that does nothing for other skiers except getting themselves (presenters) recognized? It is skiing!!!! Yes, that is the least valuable of the traits is you want the right way to ski.

If you think this is harsh, just listen to their teaching. Not only does it not get you to ski as they do, but it also leads you in the wrong direction. These people just don't get it, they don't make the connection, from their system to their skiing.

As an aside which isn't trivial either, the presentation is flawed in another way. It doesn't fulfill any motivation of the participants. It is understood that the participants are there to be able to learn to ski like the presenters. However, the presenters don't teach how they ski or what got them there. So the motivation is never fulfilled. Even the comments at the bottom of this video demonstrate this. Many commented that this presentation is totally confusing.

Now think of the consequences? Thousands of instructors and skiers think this is the best stuff and will either go out and try to teach this, ski this or try to copy it, which is impossible. So the ski industry is perpetuating bad skiing while patting themselves on the back while doing so.
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby Max_501 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:15 pm

h.harb wrote:I'll disagree with Helluva and Max501.


I'm all set for a good disagreement but you'll have to let me know what we don't agree on???
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Re: Berger, McGlashan & Lorenz ski video

Postby h.harb » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:16 am

I disagree, yes, maybe you didn't read my posts on this thread. Am I not clear enough! Also, in the posts, I explained why I disagree with this part of your post.


I have no doubt Reilly and Berger have no problem helping a dedicated skier get to the expert level.
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