flexing to release video

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flexing to release video

Postby l2ski » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:08 pm

I found this video nice to watch since it shows all the primary movements clearly in slow motion:

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Re: flexing to release video

Postby Vailsteve » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:24 pm

It is a good video...but not close to being a “secret” move as per the title. HH has been teaching this for decades now. And I posted a comment about that...

I wonder if this has something do with Harald’s comment (and others) that PMTS is finally infiltrating the higher levels of TTS. Reilly from Australia is leading then pack and pulling Paul Lorentz and Andreas Speittel along. I know that JF Beaulieu from the Canadien demo team ordered Harald’s Instructor Manual a couple of months ago.

Who knows.. with Welch Village 100% behind PMTS and being asked to help out at other resorts, maybe, finally, that behemoth resort operation in Broomfield, CO will see the light...
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby h.harb » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:03 pm

As Steve said, there is nothing new here. I explained how to use this and create it in your skiing 25 years ago. They have yet to explain it in a way you can apply it!

They will never see the light! They have to be coerced, humiliated, exposed as incompetent and failures, which they are, or they will never change into anything, but what they are..
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby h.harb » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:10 pm

In fact, in 1984 when I was Head of the US Ski Team Development camp at Keystone, I introduced this hand position, shown in this video frame, how to achieve it and use it. I told the national development coaches this was the future. All I got was stares at me like deer in the headlights. 10 years later, I actually had a coach come back to me saying, "you were so far ahead of the times". None of them could understand the significance of the blocking movements or CA, CB done right, resulting from this hand and arm position.
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby DougD » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:01 am

Great video for seeing a good skier using all the Essentials. For learning how to ski like this (or even remotely like this) there's still only one organized body of knowledge and guidance available to the average skier.

PMTS has been available for 20+ years, yet mainstream organizations refuse to adopt it. New discoveries require change and change is difficult... but 20 years?

The video poster's use of the term "Back Seat" to describe the posture during transition is misleading. All non-expert skiers know what backseat skiing feels like... lack of control and burning quads, caused by skiing in that position when the skis are loaded.

Expert skiers are only in this position during the float, when the skis are unloaded. There's nothing Backseat-ish about it... you're simply floating above the snow, essentially weightless. It's no more tiring to have your legs deeply flexed here than it is while floating in a swimming pool.

Non-expert TTS skiers don't have a float phase. They push to get tall at transition from a position back on their heels. THAT'S backseat skiing.
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby l2ski » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:06 am

I'm surprised that the one who posted the video didn't mention
pulling back the feet during transition for re-centering.

I like this video because the camera angle and position is really good and you
can see a good number of turns in the clip.
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby DougD » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:41 am

l2ski wrote:I'm surprised that the one who posted the video didn't mention
pulling back the feet during transition for re-centering.

Maybe he doesn't understand that. If he thinks this is "backseat" skiing, he clearly doesn't have an understanding of the movements defined by PMTS.

I like this video because the camera angle and position is really good and you
can see a good number of turns in the clip.

Agreed! Great find.
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby h.harb » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:58 am

Re-centering has been the least understood movement in skiing, since I was a kid, even today coaches don't study read or educate themselves to know about pulling the feet back. Reilly McGlashan does, because he's been trained by PMTS. The next least understood piece is "tipping", coaches don't understand that it is a continuous movement and it should never stop or hesitate during an arc. But they don't know how to teach it.
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby DougD » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:00 am

h.harb wrote:Re-centering has been the least understood movement in skiing, since I was a kid, even today coaches don't study read or educate themselves to know about pulling the feet back. Reilly McGlashan does, because he's been trained by PMTS.

Your formulation is so simple that it's brilliant. Everybody talked (still talks) about geting the hips forward... which just doesn't work. I tried for years to no avail.

Then some guy named HH said, "Pull your feet back." Instant improvement.
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby h.harb » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:27 am

This topic goes well beyond the flexing, pull back and retraction idea alone. You have to build the skier one step at a time for flexing, pull back and retraction, to end up at the highest levels. This is why USSA and PSIA will never get it or use it. You have to understand the whole skiing process. To pull back effectively, you have to have pressure on the outside ski in the arc, and the ski has to be at least close to bent. You have to have CA and be able to hold your CA at the point of release. This is why most of the US ski team, men and women, except M. S. in slalom are so inconsistent (besides terrible boot alignment). You have to know how to CA, they don't! You have to have retraction to pull back. Retraction makes the skis light on the snow in transition. You can't pull back a weighted ski as well or as fast.

Unless these organizations begin to take skiing and biomechanics seriously they will only be a one trick pony, ie one racer at a time, like M. S. at the moment. Meanwhile we'll be talking about the great ones like Hirscher and Gross.
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby geoffda » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:42 pm

Should we do a "golf clap" here? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. The author of this video is (from what I've seen) a park and ride skier who seems to have a limited understanding of what it means to make a ski perform. You can find some examples of his skiing on PugSki. He seems to be a typical masters racer/instructor type who doesn't know what he doesn't know. He came on the forum years ago, but he didn't stick around.

"If you can't do it, you can't understand it, and you have no business trying to teach it."

The obvious question would be, "Why are elite skiers flexing in transition?" I doubt the author can answer that because he doesn't appear to ski with foot tipping. Moreover, the notion that the skier is in the "back seat" is completely wrong. As is the notion that flexing during transition involves some sort of leg work out. As is the notion that there is active leg extension going on.

When people who can't do it try to explain it, they often fall back to descriptive, rather than prescriptive instruction. Since they don't know *what* to do to achieve what they think they are seeing, they fall back to trying to describe that which they don't understand. In their own skiing, they try to imitate, but without real understanding, the results are almost never what they intend.

Look, there is no need to seek out random ski instruction on the internet. Everything necessary to develop into a world-class skier can be found in Harald's books and videos, his blog, and here on the PMTS forum. There simply isn't anyone else who understands skiing at his level. Even people who seem to get it generally don't. Most people have no clue what is possible on skis. They get to some level and they think they have it all figured out. The reality is that true, world class ski performance is only available to a highly select group of athletes. The rest of us will never get there. That said, if we can develop perfect movements, with perfect timing, and our bodies aren't so far removed from world class athletes that our deficiencies can't be overcome with proper equipment setup, well, we can get really close. But it takes somebody like Harald, who not only was an actual, elite world-class skier, but who has spent his life figuring out how world-class skiers actually ski, to explain what is required to ski at that level. Why on earth would anyone seek out instruction elsewhere when they could take advantage of a resource like Harald?

If the thought is that "hey, this video shows instructors are cactching on," well, that is just wrong. Like I said, even people who think they get it usually don't. And if you can't ski it, you definitely don't get it. When ski schools start requiring their directors to be PMTS certfied and they start teaching a pure PMTS curriculum, then you can say things are changing. Sprinkling a few movements (or the Phantom move) into the mix isn't a sign of understanding--it is actually a sign of lack of understanding. Anyone who isn't teaching straight up Essentials, nothing more, nothing less, doesn't get it and isn't worth listening to.

If you want a good video of racers flexing in transition, just go grab Stefano Gross, Marcel Hirscher, or Mikaela Shiffrin running slalom on YouTube and play it back in VLC Media Player so you an slow it down. There is no need to watch this video since the analysis isn't correct.
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby skijim13 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:17 am

Jeff, well said. There is no question that the PSIA fears PMTS because of the great results it produces with a solid roadmap to improvement. One of the best parts of the system is that it educates the students to learn to coach themselves to improve their own skiing.
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby jbotti » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:27 am

Almost like the protestant reformation where Luther and the reformers claimed that all people could have a direct relationship with God and the catholic church claimed that any relationship to God for the masses had to have a priest and the church as its conduit. Yes PMTS teaches us how to look at our own skiing, find the flaws and then do the drills that are the fixes.

Sorry bad analogy, there is no religious fervor when it comes to ski instruction :D :D :D
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby Vailsteve » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:57 pm

JBotti

LIKE!! My grandfather, father, older brother, and brother-in-law were/are ALL Luthersn ministers. I ran away and joined the Navy...

And now I am a ski bum...

VailSteve.
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Re: flexing to release video

Postby h.harb » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:07 pm

Look, there is no need to seek out random ski instruction on the internet. Everything necessary to develop into a world-class skier can be found in Harald's books and videos, his blog, and here on the PMTS forum. There simply isn't anyone else who understands skiing at his level. Even people who seem to get it generally don't.


Thanks Geoff. I have to agree these videos are Johnny come to late to the table. Plus so they sort of get one aspect of skiing's releasing movements, that does not a complete skier make!
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